Canadian plane crashes in Nashville killing 5

[Skyediamonds]

I'm a private pilot myself. I'm specifically interested in the Admirals thoughts…

Ahhhh…. Okay.

 

[Retattack]

The NTSB Preliminary Report is out: NTSB releases preliminary report on West Nashville plane crash that killed Canadian family of 5

It buries the lede a bit, but reading between the lines suggests the engine was working, but the fuel selector valve was incorrectly positioned:

The fuel selector handle, fuel selector valve/fuel strainer, and fuel selector torque tube were fire damaged and deformed by impact forces and were separated from the airframe. The fuel
selector valve was found between the off and left main tank positions, slightly favoring the left tank position. The fuel selector valve/fuel strainer was opened revealing significant carbon and fire damage.

It also discusses him flying over the airport before turning and eventually crashing into the shoulder of an interstate highway.

Per the Tennessean, he began training in 2022, got his license in Nov '22 and bought the mishap aircraft in mid '23. Canadian mayor, school remember family killed in Nashville plane crash: 'Devastating loss'

Too early to call, but suggestive of a rookie pilot beyond his skill level. Tragic.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The NTSB Preliminary Report is out: NTSB releases preliminary report on West Nashville plane crash that killed Canadian family of 5

It buries the lede a bit, but reading between the lines suggests the engine was working, but the fuel selector valve was incorrectly positioned:

It also discusses him flying over the airport before turning and eventually crashing into the shoulder of an interstate highway.

Per the Tennessean, he began training in 2022, got his license in Nov '22 and bought the mishap aircraft in mid '23. Canadian mayor, school remember family killed in Nashville plane crash: 'Devastating loss'

Too early to call, but suggestive of a rookie pilot beyond his skill level. Tragic.

On the Piper's I flew the fuel selector was near the floor on the left side (side wall). Very easy to forget to switch it if you are overwhelmed.

 

[Skyediamonds]

I'm a private pilot myself. I'm specifically interested in the Admirals thoughts…

Ahhhh…. Okay.

 

[Skyediamonds]

On the Piper's I flew the fuel selector was near the floor on the left side (side wall). Very easy to forget to switch it if you are overwhelmed.

I make it a point to switch the fuel selector whenever I'm over an airfield just in case.

More to your point, almost all fuel selector valves on single engine low winged Pipers are mounted on the left side wall by the pilot's knee.

In my case, I found out the hard way that the detents can get worn out. While flying a
Piper Dakota over an airfield on my way to my destination, I blindly switched tanks, relying on feel. Little did I realize until the engine stated running rough that I went from "right" tank straight pass the "left" into "off." That detent was so worn out that I didn't feel it.

I knew instantly what happened & proceeded to: fly the plane followed by switching on the electric fuel pump & the carefully selecting the left tank. The engine immediately caught & all was good, but not before scaring the stuff out of my passenger.

Lesson learned; look & confirm selection.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I make it a point to switch the fuel selector whenever I'm over an airfield just in case.

More to your point, almost all fuel selector valves on single engine low winged Pipers are mounted on the left side wall by the pilot's knee.

In my case, I found out the hard way that the detents can get worn out. While flying a
Piper Dakota over an airfield on my way to my destination, I blindly switched tanks, relying on feel. Little did I realize until the engine stated running rough that I went from "right" tank straight pass the "left" into "off." That detent was so worn out that I didn't feel it.

I knew instantly what happened & proceeded to: fly the plane followed by switching on the electric fuel pump & the carefully selecting the left tank. The engine immediately caught & all was good, but not before scaring the stuff out of my passenger.

Lesson learned; look & confirm selection.

I always set a timer for 15 minutes, and switched between left and right every 15 minutes.

 

[Skyediamonds]

I always set a timer for 15 minutes, and switched between left and right every 15 minutes.

I switch every twenty to thirty minutes & over a marked airfield.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I just don't understand where the private pilot hate is coming from, or what the end game is.

I'll ask some questions.

1. What is the point of a PPL if you are not going to use it, and that includes flying friends and family?
2. What is the point of a pilot exam if getting a pilot certificate does not deem you safe and proficient enough to fly passengers?
3. When/how many hours are you safe and proficient enough?
4. Where do we draw the line, and by that I mean, boating, driving cars, etc? All of them require some form of training and certification, right?

No pilot hate intended. I don't imagine there's a soul here who does. I'm not qualified to address any of your four questions, other than to suggest that once we have the relevant certifications it's up to us to ensure that in addition to the regulatory papers, we also have the mindset, character and professional approach to follow our training and stay within the limits of our abilities and certifications, and are able to assess risks for both ourselves and those others who entrust their lives to us. One need only watch Mayday on the Discovery Channel to see examples of certified, trained pilots, both commercial and private skipping check lists, breaking protocol, making assumptions, flying VFR into IMC, etc.... and getting themselves and others needlessly killed.

I ride a motorcycle, for 20 years now. I am professionally trained, and have partaken in further training courses to ensure I know what I am doing. In my 20 years of riding I have never had an oh sh#t moment, because I am careful, predictable and stick to, and build upon my training. But with all that, I have never, not once, ever taken someone else my on bike. This is my life to risk, not yours. Of course that doesn't mean I won't pack the minivan with kids to head to the mall, needs must. If I was a pilot, I think I would also take my friends and family up. Since, as you suggest what's the point otherwise?

On the Piper's I flew the fuel selector was near the floor on the left side (side wall). Very easy to forget to switch it if you are overwhelmed.

We do not know yet what happened in Nashville, and may never know, and the replies above remind me to check my own assumptions at the door. The preliminary report is inconclusive, yet does list the fuel selector as you mention. I do hope that the possibility of a fuel selector issue serves as a reminder to pilots and those who train them to ensure that whatever can be done to prepare for final landing approach, such as checklists, sterile cockpit rules, etc. are done. If we do whatever we can to remove pilot error, we need only worry about mechanical/system failure.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No pilot hate intended. I don't imagine there's a soul here who does. I'm not qualified to address any of your four questions, other than to suggest that once we have the relevant certifications it's up to us to ensure that in addition to the regulatory papers, we also have the mindset, character and professional approach to follow our training and stay within the limits of our abilities and certifications, and are able to assess risks for both ourselves and those others who entrust their lives to us. One need only watch Mayday on the Discovery Channel to see examples of certified, trained pilots, both commercial and private skipping check lists, breaking protocol, making assumptions, flying VFR into IMC, etc.... and getting themselves and others needlessly killed.

I ride a motorcycle, for 20 years now. I am professionally trained, and have partaken in further training courses to ensure I know what I am doing. In my 20 years of riding I have never had an oh sh#t moment, because I am careful, predictable and stick to, and build upon my training. But with all that, I have never, not once, ever taken someone else my on bike. This is my life to risk, not yours. Of course that doesn't mean I won't pack the minivan with kids to head to the mall, needs must. If I was a pilot, I think I would also take my friends and family up. Since, as you suggest what's the point otherwise?

We do not know yet what happened in Nashville, and may never know, and the replies above remind me to check my own assumptions at the door. The preliminary report is inconclusive, yet does list the fuel selector as you mention. I do hope that the possibility of a fuel selector issue serves as a reminder to pilots and those who train them to ensure that whatever can be done to prepare for final landing approach, such as checklists, sterile cockpit rules, etc. are done. If we do whatever we can to remove pilot error, we need only worry about mechanical/system failure.

Thanks for your responses.

I agree, every pilot, should fly within their abilities. For example I don't have my Instrument Rating yet (hope to change that soon), so unless the weather will be 100% ideal I do not fly. The risk is simply not worth it for me.

 

[Skyediamonds]

Admiral, DerAdler & fellow members:

I must admit that I was impressed with Admiral's response & Dee's reply. Thank you both. Just as in driving, we trust others will follow the rules & protocols of the road & unfortunately there will always be those few who operate "outside the box."

Following up on DerAdler's reply about flying VFR, I was born with severe hearing loss in both ears. As a result, like yourself about not flying into IMC, I only fly out of uncontrolled airfields. I knew my hearing loss would never permit me to obtain an IFR rating ( unless everyone used sign language … ) so I did the next best thing & only flew under ideal weather.

Let's hope this report reaches its conclusion.