CAPTURED AIRCRAFT - ODD PHOTOS

Well mines a 30+year old Revell kit, and I had to make the strut.. no biggie

I have to say this is one of the most informative threads I've seen in along time. Thanks for posting the obscure photos. The color shots of the 109s are spectacular. I've shot some surviving Luftwaffe aircraft in Europe and to be honest I have been too lazy to research thier individual historys. Until now.

jim


Prague Avia 262

Le Bourget 111

Prague Avia 109

Prague Avia 109

To be honest , the first shot and these last two ones don't show survived Luftwaffe aircraft. The fist one presents Avia S-92 ( but not Avia 262) and was assembled in Czechoslovakia in 1946 as memo serves. The second shot showes Avia S-199 ( not Avia 109 ) that was making by Avia and Aero factories in 1948. The third image shows Avia CS-199 ( also the post-war product ) , the training variant of the Avia S-199. All planes are of post-war Czechoslovak painting scheme with national markings.

However these are very nice pictures.

good thread guys.


DBII

@Wurger, thanks, I am still digging into the history of these aircraft. At the time the tour guide told us that these airframes were assembled from German built components after the war and flown into the late 50's. They also have a 2 seat 262 which we were shown but not allowed to photograph. It was being restored and they wanted to keep it private. This museum has an incredible collection. There is a P-47 fuselage in storage which they claim to be Gabreski's airplane...there is no paint on it and we were not given access to the serial number so I remain skeptical, but it is great folklore.

jim

Very cool info!

jimh said:

At the time the tour guide told us that these airframes were assembled from German built components after the war and flown into the late 50's.

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That's true. Czechoslovakia was the country involved into production of Bf109 and a few other aircraft for the Nazi Germany during WW2. The industry was equipped with very modern German installations. Also workers were very qualified ones. There was many parts of German planes left after the war all around the country. Czechs used a strict policy of gathering all aircraft components that could be found at their territory . Frantisek Janca and Frantisek Sykora were responsible for collecting of air-equipment that was gathered at Kralupy airfield. And then it was sent to Avia factory. Airframes were sent from Slukovo, wings from Krasikovo, wooden tails from Korycan and from Tisinovo - planes at different stages of assembly. Because many of these parts were damaged Avia people made manufactuting documentation for making parts from scratch. This let them to start making German designed aircrfat for the CAF. The only problem there was a lack of an engine factory where DB 605 motors could be assembled. However there was a great number of finished engines storaged in Czech. So the Ministry of Defense ordered to start assembling of Messerschmitt Bf109G-14 and G-12, Arado 96, Siebel 204D and Bucker 181. The fighter machine was coded with C-10 name ( C = cvicny - training). Because the Avia factory in Cakovice was the plant that was assembling Bf109 during the war , it was ordered to the factory. Aero and Letov factories in Letany were those cooperating in the process. Engines DB 605 ( Czech name M-605) were prepared by Motorlet plant in Jinonice. The first assembled Bf109G-14 took off on the 12th February 1946. It was powered by DB-605 engine but the engine cowling was of G-14/AS type but without the MW installation mounted. All tests on the machine lasted untill 1948. In June 1946 the seconed assembled plane was tested. By the 14th May 1947 , 21 planes were assembled. The last aircraft of the series was the last one equipped with the M-605 engine. In March 1946 20 planes were given to the National Security Corps and used for patrol flights along borderlines. In August of 1947 the Ministry of Defense introduced new symbols for aircraft types and then the C-10 became S-99. It has to be mentioned that these planes had many accidents because of engine overheating and wearing, also because of undercarriage unenduring.

be continued....

Because there were two fuselage of Bf 109G-12 ( the training variant of Messerschmitt Bf109G ) among all gathered parts, they made a decision of assembling planes for pilots' training. The first one took off on 20th June 1946 and the second one on the 13th August 1946. Both planes were powered by M-605A engine ( DB 605A-1 ) and weren't armed. Although their engine cowlings made it possible to mount machine guns vz. 131/13N ( MG131 made in Czechoslovakia). The pilot traing process started on the 1st February 1947. In order to make the process quicker one Bf 109K was assembled in The Engeenier School in Liberec. The plane with one C-10 together was used for a ground training. After nine months both Bf 109G-12s got back to Avia plant for the engine replacement. Then M 605D engines were attached. ALso there were changed engine cowlings for the same like C-10 had. It means that these were of Bf 109G-14/AS. Additionally the cockpit conopies were replaced with non-frame pressed ones. The test flight of both renovated planes were carried out in April 1947 and then planes were signed with C-110 symbol. The Ministry of Defense ordered next training planes in the Avia factory and therefore they needed to make fuselages for these planes by an alteration to airframes of single-seaters. Because there wasn't any documentation for Bf109G-12 they rebuilt one fuselage and tested its durability with a success.
The first flight of a such rebuilt plane was on 19th May 1947. Unfortunately it was damaged when landing because one of main landing gear leg stayed retracted. Damages weren't major and the plane was repaired quickly. There were 29 double-seaters assembled by the Sepetember 1947. The last one of them got its test flight on the 1st September 1947 and was already signed with the aircraft symbol CS-99. S-99 training planes were using up to the beginning of 1950 and untill M-605 engines were in working order.

And some info on the Avia CS-199 of the Prague-Kbely Aviation Museum...

UC-26 (cn 199-565) Probably only one preserved post war by Avia factory builded twin-seat german Bf 109G-12. This "Mezek" (Mule) served until early 1950s in flying school at Prostejov, later was discovered in the yard of school in Celachovice and in 1966 moved to Kbely museum for restoration. Here is displayed in original appearance from service in Prostejov.

A few shots ...

On a side note Wurger, in regards to your comment "Also workers were very qualified ones", I had the opportunity to work with a gentleman years ago, who was Czech. He used to do major engine machining for our shop and I found out that when he was 16 years old, he worked for the Germans at a nearby Luftwaffe base as a shop helper at first. The Germans took a liking to him and started teaching him how to do repairs on the Stuka, including the Jumo engine and then the Bf109 and the Daimler engines and so on.

He went on to become a master machinist and later came to the U.S. where he continued his trade until retiring.

He also had a complete working Jumo 211 in the back of his shop, on a stand...I wish I knew what happened to it after he passed away

A very nice info here. Undoubtedly the aviation industry in Czechoslovakia was very advanced and "survived" in a very good condition. Glad you had an opportunity to meet the guy there.

The following were taken from "Kitthawks over the Sands" by Michel Lavigne and James F. Edwards:

This 109 was probably from III/JG77 and had been damaged and left at Martuba airfield. It was captured by the RAF in November 1942, reapinted in 260 Squadron codes (much like the He 111 in the earlier posts) and flown for evaluation purposes.


Black 6 W. Nr 10639 from 8/JG77 is interesting in that it now resides at the Hendon museum, having been restored to flying condition until it pranged a few years back. These pics show it being captured after having been left damaged at Bur el Arca in November 1942. I had not seen these pics before and found them interesting.

In addition, the Bf 109G-2 "Black 6" was flown by Lt. Heinz Ludemann. The aircraft was damaged on the 4th November 1942 during a dogfight between 8./JG77 pilots and the RAF 112 Squadron ones flown Kittyhawks. Ludemann was made a forced landing at the Quotafiyas airfield near Gambut Main. F/Sgt D.Brown managed to open fire for less than a second and hit the plane but without any success seen. The Messerschmitt was found at the airfield by Ken McRae of the 239 RAF Wing for his commander Bobby Gibbes. The plane was repaired by maintenance crews of the 3th RAAF Squadron and coded with CV_V letters and the RAF markings.

Good thread

I agree

Does anyone know how many C47/DC2-3's were captured, confiscated or impressed by the Luftwaffe during WWII ? What color were they painted - if repainted at all, and there is one small photo of one C47 (I assume) on the net , are there any more? Thanks. Joe Hueber

Joe, there's only a few examples of them in Luftwaffe service that I know of.

One was used by Luftwaffe Gen. Christiansen (Netherlands command), rec. code NA+LA and I understand that at least one other was attached to KG200.

I'm sure there's more, hopefully someone here has better info for you.

Njaco said:

found a couple bf 110s going through Bundesarchiv......

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NJACO; the night fighter Bf 110 as it is today:



Black 6 these days:



Both of these are at the RAF Museum, Hendon.

Many of the German machines in British markings, including the He 219 and Ar 232 (which was flown across the English Channel by test pilot Eric 'Winkle' Brown to collect hoards of stuff the Brits took as war booty), were taken at the Enemy Aircraft Exhibition at Farnborough, Hampshire in autumn (Fall) 1945. This was a showcase of what the Germans had been up to in aircraft design and featured flying displays by different Allied and Axis types, including Me 262s and Do 335s; one of these crashed, killing the British test pilot. Sadly, few of the aircraft that attended the exhibition survived.

If ever there was an airshow or event I would have loved to have seen, it would have been that one; similar to Watson's Whizzers.

To continue this fascinating thread, here are some interesting pictures:

Ju 290 Alles Kaput!



Bv 222



He 177

Ju 88 PJ876



Quite a story behind this aircraft. The text is not mine; copyright RAF Museum, written by Andy Simpson, Aircraft and Exhibits Department:

Mid 1942: Possible original construction date as a Ju88 A-1 bomber, licence built by Heinkel at Rostock or Oranienburg with the manufacturers radio code CH + MB

Early 1943: Likely conversion date to R-1 standard. The Ju88 R-1 entered service early 1943 and was an interim development of the C-6 fighter variant and most were radar fitted for the nightfighter role. W/Nr 360043 served with IV/NJG.3, coded D5 + EV.

Sunday 09 May 43: Took off from Aalborg, Westerland, Denmark at 1503 hours, landing at Kristiansand, Norway for refuelling at 1603. Took off again at 1650 for a mission over the Skagerrak. The crew of three were: Flugzeugführer (Pilot) Oberleutnant Heinrich (or Herbert) Schmitt (age 29) - son of the one-time secretary to the Weimer Republic's Minister for Foreign Affairs, Gustav Streseman. Bordmechaniker (Flight Engineer) Oberfeldwebel (Sgt) Erich Kantwill; Bordfunker (Wireless Op/Gunner) Oberfeldwebel Paul Rosenberger.

Aviation historian Ken West records that these were a `peacetime' crew of some repute, though Schmitt and Rosenberger were loners who did not mix with other fliers. Schmitt, despite his length of service, had never shot down an allied aircraft. It is suggested that he had pro-British sympathies, and whilst serving with 2/NJG2 he had landed in the UK at Debden (14-15 Feb 41) and in Lincolnshire (20 May 41) on clandestine intelligence missions connected with British intelligence. Some authors claim that both Schmitt and Rosenberger had worked for British Intelligence for some time, having flown together since 1940.

According to Robert Hill in `The Great Coup'; both Schmitt and Rosenberger were motivated by experiences in the Spanish Civil War and abhorrence of Nazi Genocide. Schmitt was certainly from an anti-Nazi background and had apparently been passing information to the allies since 1940.

A letter from Helmut Fiedler, former groundcrew on this aircraft, written July 1998, adds some interesting details; 'on the squadron one often thought why such a long serving crew with the customary awards had made no interceptions and shot nothing down…..Oberleutnant Schmitt and Oberfeldwebel Kontwill were friendly with us groundcrew. Oberfeldwebel Rosenberger was not liked by the air or groundcrew… He was a lone wolf…'

At 1710 hours Rosenberger sent a bogus message to Nightfighter HQ at Grove, Denmark, saying the aircraft had a starboard engine fire and Schmitt descended to sea level to get below German radar and dropped three life rafts to make the Germans think the plane and crew were lost at sea, then headed for Scotland. Kantwill was not part of the conspiracy and resisted until held at gunpoint by Rosenberger. Professor R V Jones in his book `Most Secret War', p.327 recorded that the crew had been ordered to intercept and shoot down an unarmed BOAC Mosquito courier flight from Leuchars, Scotland to Stockholm, Sweden and this caused Schmitt and Rosenberger to decide `it was time for them to get out of the war'.

The Ju88 was eventually intercepted by aircraft from No.165 (Ceylon) Squadron, flying Spitfire VBs from Peterhead with a detachment at Dyce airfield near Aberdeen. Blue section - 22 year old American Flt Lt Arthur Ford `Art' Roscoe DFC in BM515 (Blue 1) and Canadian Sgt B R S Scamen (Blue 2) in AB921 were scrambled form Dyce at 1750 with orders to intercept an unidentified aircraft.

The Squadron Diary records: `Arthur Roscoe and Ben Scamen were scrambled today to investigate a raider plotted due east of Peterhead. The raider turned south and eventually started to orbit as though lost. The section identified the raider as a Ju88 and when Arthur approached, the Hun dropped his undercart shot off very lights and waggled his wings. Blue 1 waggled his wings in turn and positioned himself in front of the enemy aircraft - Ben Scamen flew above and behind and the procession moved off to Dyce aerodrome where all landed safely causing a major sensation'.

Roscoe's report of the incident records contact made at 1805 hours 13 miles NNW of Aberdeen: `I was flying Blue 1 when we were scrambled to intercept an `X' raid said to be 15 miles east of Peterhead travelling west at 0 feet. We were vectored 030 and I flew at very high speed in order to intercept before bandit reached coast. When about half way to Peterhead, we were told the bandit was flying south about 5 miles out to sea. We turned east and flew out to sea for a few minutes and then orbited as bandit was reported due north of us going south. We were then told to come closer in shore and orbit. We were then told bandit was west of us and orbiting so I flew slightly NNW so I could see to port. I then saw bandit about 1 mile inland on my port bow at about 300-400 feet. I approached from his starboard beam and noticed his wheels were down and he fired numerous red very lights. I identified it as Ju88. He waggled his wings and I answered him back so I presumed he wished to be led to an Aerodrome. I positioned myself about 400 yards ahead of him and told Blue 2 to fly above and behind and to one side of bandit. The 88 raised his wheels and followed me back to Dyce. Upon reaching the aerodrome he lowered his wheels, fired more red lights, did a short circuit and landed. I followed him around during his complete run-in just out of range. We then pancaked

The Ju88 landed safely, despite being hit by the airfields AA guns, at 1820. No.165 Squadron's ORB records: `Blue section were ordered to investigate a raid under Peterhead section control (Flt Lt Crimp). The raider was plotted due east of Peterhead but turned south down the coast eventually orbiting a few miles NNW of Dyce. The fighters were vectored on to him and the aircraft was identified as a Ju88. The E/A lowered its undercarriage, fired off very lights and waggled its wings violently on Flt Lt Roscoe's approach. He replied in a similar manner and flew ahead to lead the E/A into Dyce. Blue 1 ordered Blue 2 to fly behind and above the Junkers and the whole party proceeded to Dyce and all landed safely. The pilots are to be congratulated for not opening fire and so bringing home valuable information for the technical branch and the Controller for his quick appreciation of the possibilities of the officer and bale handling of the situation."

The Dyce composite combat report of 9 May 1943 repeats the praise for the controller and Spitfire pilots and records that the Dyce airfield AA guns opened up whilst the Ju88 was in the circuit and scored one or two strikes.

This was a valuable coup for the British - the Ju88 was fitted with the latest FuG 202 Liechtenstein BC A.I radar. It was the first of its type to fall into British hands, complete with associated signals documents.

There had been no apparent pre-warning of the detection for the airfield or Spitfire pilots. Roscoe and Scamen were mentioned in despatches for the capture, although Professor R V Jones attempted, unsuccessfully to have them given the DFC for taking a calculated risk in not shooting down the Ju88.

Schmitt and Rosenberger co-operated fully with the British. Schmitts' safe arrival in the UK was signalled to his father in Germany with the coded message `May has come' broadcast by the British propaganda radio station `Gustav Seigfried Eins' and the Luftwaffe learnt of the defection a month later when Schmitt and Rosenberger took part in propaganda broadcasts. Kantwill did not co-operate and was incarcerated as a POW. Schmitt returned to Germany post-war, flew as a civil pilot and then emigrated and disappeared. Rosenberger assumed a new identify and by 1979 ran a hotel and restaurant in Marlborough, Wilts. Kantwill emigrated to Canada after release since his marriage had broken up during the war. The story was covered in detail in German newspapers in the 1970s.

11 May 43: Professor R V Jones (Assistant Directorate of Scientific Intelligence and an expert on German radar systems) arrived at Dyce to take charge of evaluation of the aircraft and its equipment and asked for it to be hangered to hide it from Luftwaffe reconnaissance aircraft.

PJ876 Today: