Cement? Brand and type

[Ralph Haus]

This subject may have been addressed in the past, if so I apologize for doing it again. I did not get any hits when I did a search.

As I have mentioned in the past posts that I have made, I'm back modeling again after 'many' years of absence. And, I'm learning that there is more today than in the 50's as far as tool are concerned. My question is about the types (brands?) of glues that are used by those of you that are producing some excellent models.

I have been using the old standard Testors tube glue, a tooth pick, and patience. I tried the Testors liquid cement and after the first use, and about $8, it sopped flowing. I liked the way it worked when it did work; much cleaner bonds. But I never could get it working again after I broke the seal.

I stumbled across an ad for the Tamiya cement line, thin and (I guess) regular. Any input on these? As good or better than the Testors liquid? Having a screw top and a brush seems to be a better approach? Any other options or opinions?

 

[Airframes]

A lot depends on the requirements, and the time available before set up.
I still use tube cement for some jobs, along with one of the many variations in 'dispensers', the type with a shaped, plastic 'bottle' and a stainless steel tube, common brands, in the UK at least, being Revell Contacta, and the Humbrol equivalent.
For 'liquid' cements, I use the Tamiya cement in the clear bottle with white cap and brush, which is similar to 'tube' cement, although slightly thinner, and also the Tamiya Extra Thin cement, again in a bottle, with a green cap and brush.
The latter is very thin indeed, and is great for many jobs, but as it tends to evaporate fairly quickly, it is really only intended for small areas. That said, when joining, for example, a large fuselage, it can be used in stages, cementing, say, a couple of inches at a time, allowing the liquid to flow into the joint.
Another type I used to use, but haven't seen for a while, is a variation of the Tamiya extra thin, the brand in the UK being MekPac. As the name suggests, this was basically MEK, much thinner than the Tamiya, and ideal for very delicate work. It could well be banned now, due to it being virtually 'raw' MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone), which is classed as a health hazard, and is also quite volatile and potentially explosive (I won't tell you how to use it as such !)
Other jobs may require CA (Cyanoacrylate) adhesives, commonly called 'Superglue' in Europe, and using resin or metal etched parts will almost always require this, or an epoxy adhesive.
There are also uses for PVA - white glue - which can be used for transparent parts, as a fine filler, and also, in some cases, as a masking fluid.
Hope this helps, but no doubt other members will chip in too.

 

[parsifal]

with regard to CA glue, I believe that there are differences between brands. I find ZAP provides the greatest choice, with slow dry, fast dry and medium dry. You can also get hold of a debonder for when things go wrong. I believe that ZAP has greater tensile strength than you garden variety no-name brand superglue that you can pick up from seven eleven. or similar.

I tend to avoid all the fancy dispensers. They add to the cost. What you need is a sturdy bottle able to be resealed , which means you need a cap that can fit even after a bit of glue residue is stuck to the outlet. You can clean the outlet with CA debonder if need be.

I also find it beneficial if the glue stands up so that the glue is not pushing up against the outlet.

For Polystyrene cement, my favour it is the Revell brand in their blue disp0enser. It has a steel dispenser pipe, which is useful but will eventually clog up. After it clogs, you will have to resort to putting a bit on a palette and then applying with a needle or toothpick.

PVA glue can be bought commercially from the hardware store. its wood glue and I use it for fixing clear parts. You can also use it to make clear sheet, a bit tricky but it works. Ive never had much luck using specialised clear parts glues. I can never get them to stick properly.

 

[Crimea_River]

I have 3 types that I use. Tamiya Extra Thin for general construction, CA for photoetched parts and parts that I want to set quickly (I just buy a generic one at the grocery store), and Testors Clear Parts Cement which is basically PVA but a bit stronger than wood glue in my opinion.

The Tamiya Extra Thin, when used correctly, makes very good seams and, as Terry says, you need to take your time and glue no more than 2 or 3 inches at a time. Hold the parts together loosely, apply the TET, let it wick into the seam, wait 10 seconds and then press the parts together firmly. You should see tiny blobs of of styrene ooze from the seam and that's a good thing. Once cured the melted styrene is sanded away and the seam is invisible.

 

[Donivanp]

I use several, for PE and clear.
Gator Grip Glue

For fast acting fast setting plastic on plastic
Same Stuff & Applicator

Tamiya thin is a regular and tube glue is used at times. CA is always used on PE but the Gator's Grip is a special formula white which works pretty good and less sticky mess.

 

[Airframes]

A little tip if the stainless steel tube on a cement bottle clogs - wave a lighted cigarette lighter under the tube for two or three seconds.
This will soften the blockage, allowing the glue to flow freely. The worst that can happen is a small, soft 'pop' if the cement in the very end of the tube ignites, but it's harmless, extinguishes immediately, and will not cause any damage.

 

[herman1rg]

I keep a piece of thin wire stuck inside my stainless steel glue pipe when not in use , (note, not being smutty)

 

[mikewint]

Can't even remember the last time I used Tube-type cement/glue. By far 95% of what I use is CA (cyanoacrylate). In general there are 3 varieties from a VERY thin (low viscosity) instant setting to a thicker +15 sec setter to a thick (gap-filling) +1 min setting type.
As to brand, there are various ones but I tend to not use any that are found in non-hobby-type stores. Many hobby stores both online and off put their own labels on the bottles. BSI or Bob Smith Industries is a common online (Ebay) "brand". I prefer the medium 15 sec setting type which gives time to position and has some gap-filling ability. The instant set types are VERY thin and will not stay in one place for any amount of time and will quickly "run" all over the model and your fingers. I use them ONLY if I find a small gap in a previously CA bonded joint that needs to be re-glued.
CA-types tend to frost Clear parts like canopies so I use Testors clear parts cement. It can also be used to actually make a clear window pane in a model. I've also used it to "fill" gaps where two large parts do not quite meet. It is flexible as it sets and as such can be "moulded" to a degree.
Tamiya Ultra-thin cement (50-50 butyl acetate and acetone) is a volatile liquid that dissolves plastic. Thus it, in effect, welds the two pieces together. Again the very low viscosity makes it difficult to keep in one spot and the high vapor pressures causes it to evaporate quickly making it unsuitable for large gluing applications. There are various brands of these types of "plastic dissolving/welding" cements available some with very nice pipette-type applicators. Drawbacks are their high rate of evaporation (keep lids on tight as much as possible) and that they soften plastics so warpage is always possible. Terry mentioned MEK or Methyl Ethyl Ketone (Butanone) it falls into this category as it dissolves plastics like acetone but has a lower vapor pressure so does not evaporate as quickly. It is flammable and moderately explosive but a vapor concentration high enough to explode would be intolerable to humans. However spilling/breaking a bottle in a basement workshop with a gas water heater would Not be a good thing.
Donivamp's post above is another "plastic-dissolver" type whose active ingredient is METHYLENE CHLORIDE commonly referred to as Di-clo it is very volatile with a sweet aroma and is an inhalation hazard, can be absorbed through the skin, is a possible carcinogen and can cause an irregular heartbeat. The drinking bird toy, bubble lights, jukebox displays all use methylene chloride liquid
I have also used, from time to time, various types of the 3 or 5 second UV setting cements. They come in two parts, a squeeze-type dispenser of the "glue" and a UV-emitting LED. They are not useable where you cannot shine the UV on them but the advantage is that they will not harden with out UV light so you can fiddle with the parts forever then when perfect ZAP with the UV emitter and you have a instant bond.

 

[Ralph Haus]

Mike - Interesting alternative. Do you have any problems with the product degrading (drying up / hardening) over time. I guess it will depend on the size ordered and/or how fast you use it? I'm game for getting a 1 oz. bottle of each just to try them out. Do you use the provided applicator(s) or do you 'dip' into the bottle with a thin applicator (wire?). As for a source, it appears that Amazon has the better price point. Am I missing a supplier on EBay? Thanks for the feedback.

 

[mikewint]

Ralph, all CA-type cements cure by taking up moisture (water) from the parts/atmosphere. So everytime you open the tube and squeeze and release you are letting in moisture. Thus with time all CAs will thicken and eventually harden. I find that I'd rather have 2-1 oz tubes than 1-2 oz though obviously it depends upon your particular usage (less is more, you're not pulling trains with your model). If you're having cure-time problems a drop of water or breathing on it will accelerate the curing process.
I tend to buy most if not all my modeling "stuff" from Ebay and only turn to Amazon if/when I draw a blank on Ebay.
The CA that I use 95% of the time is the one in the purple container. Not sure who exactly manufactures it but various companies and hobby shops put their own label on it.
Hobby Lobby (if you have one) has a brand?? labeled "extreme POWER" which works well. The usual Thin, Medium, and Thick
If you're going to the CA types might as well pick up some "Un-Cure" just in case.
All CA containers have a pointed tip which I make a small hole in and use it that way. If it is a really small part a tooth pick works nicely

 

[Ralph Haus]

Mike- I do have an HL nearby and have verified that they do have all three viscositys of the Extreme Power. Yea!! The also have the Tamaya extra thin that I want to try. Is this a great country or what? By the way HL also carries an Extreme Power Accelerator and based on your last post I guess it's water? Thanks again for the information.

 

[mikewint]

Extreme Power Accelerator

It could be but there are other chemicals such as N,N-Dimethyl-p-Toluidine, Xylene, Ethylbenzene, generally with acetone as a solvent.
Easier, and cheaper to use are water with a bit of baking soda, warm moist breath, or the fumes from household ammonia work too (small amount in a closed bottle, dip a q-tip, bring near the CA you want to set.
IN GENERAL, accelerators/kickers are used with the thick CA which has a long cure time. You can also pre-treat the joint to be bonded with your kicker. Just be aware that your long-set CA will now set much faster and you lose fiddle time. I personally have never used an accelerator except my breath

 

[fubar57]

I have one and a half bottles of Ambroid Proweld left, now discontinued I believe. It works like the other liquid glues. I also throw away the little brush applicators that are attached to the lids and use an old fine tipped paint brush

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I have all the other glues mentioned above and I also have puzzle glue and Elmers Clear glue for clear parts

 

[mikewint]

Tetrahydrofuran (probably a solvent, dissolves PVC and other polymers, ether smell) , Cyclohexanone (probably used as a solvent smells like acetone), MEK, and acetone probably the actual plastic melters

 

[SuperFire]

Toxic Testors orange tube for me. It glues stuff STRONG! Tamiya Extra thin now for delicate pieces. If I can't throw my model on the floor and have it stay together, then what's the point?

 

[Ralph Haus]

Mike - You seem to have some background in chemical disolvents? Back in another lifetime when I was in typewriter development working on a pneumatic version of the Selectric (IBM) we were designing small pumps and bellows actuators. The materials that were best for the design were not bond-able using 'normal' chemicals. So, one of the engineers discovered Hexafluoroacetone sesquihydrate. Nasty stuff, clouds of fumes rising off the open containers. We were told to 'try' and not inhale it! As far as I know nobody had any truly bad reactions. Just the occasional coughing fit when being used. I'm still here 50 years later. It would attack and melt anything.

 

[Donivanp]

have one and a half bottles of Ambroid Proweld left, now discontinued I believe. It works like the other liquid glues. I also throw away the little brush applicators that are attached to the lids and use an old fine tipped paint brush

The post for the "Same Stuff" is the same as proweld but I just looked at their site and they want $17 US for a bottle. That's like a billion Canada right?

 

[parsifal]

its the postage that gets me. I once wanted to buy decals from a US source . price was very reasonable....about $5 au , but the postage to oz was well over $40.

I buy nothing from the US because of that.

Hong Kong is the best overseas purchase point. most times ther is no postage cost and for reasons I don't know, will usually get to my place before Aussie suppliers have even begun shipping.

Eastern Europe is a write off....doesnt arrive more times than it does. Central and Western Europe is fairly reasonable shipping costs, and also fairly reliable. Items tend to be well packed as well, but the items themselves are dearer than from the US.

Britain is my second favourite country of supply. Cheaper goods, reliable service (they do sometimes go a bit bonkers about security though) and postage rates that are less insane than the US foreign postal service.

 

[SuperFire]

The post for the "Same Stuff" is the same as proweld but I just looked at their site and they want $17 US for a bottle. That's like a billion Canada right?

I'll shoot my neighbors mule and mix it with pure gasoline before I pay those pirates 17 bucks for glue! I'm real close to building a model with Superglue and Mud just to buck the trend of paying more and enjoying it less.

 

[mikewint]

Hexafluoroacetone sesquihydrate

Hexa - 6 fluorine atoms in the molecule Sesqui- 7 Hydrate - molecules of water
Glad you didn't get too near. It is rated as Highly toxic, may be fatal if inhaled, swallowed or absorbed through skin. Avoid any skin contact. Effects of contact or inhalation may be delayed. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may be corrosive and/or toxic.
It is mainly a precursor in many organic synthesis reactions. It is also used as a solvent for acetal resins, polyamides, polyglycolide, polyacetals, and polyols or as a polymer adhesive