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If you seek something utilitarian, robust and tolerant also to less than optimal conditions, then some older designs -while less efficient- are better than more modern ones.
And given that it was designed with input from the main customer, I think it'll be a success.The Twotter is a good example of this, but before making claims that Cessna might not know what they are doing with this aircraft, it might be worth doing some research. I work on aircraft for a living, I'm well aware of engineering issues with aircraft design, but it's presumptuous to think Cessna is making a mistake with this aircraft before it has entered the market yet. There is a market for this class of aircraft, definitely, so isn't it worth waiting and seeing before we jump to conclusions and rubbish it without knowing anything about it?
But it will not be grossly underpowered like the GonadI think it looks more like the GAF Nomad (except for the fixed gear)
but, form follows function
especially lack of APU for hot countries. The manufacturers lack of support is another minus.the ATR 42, which, like the -72 is a bit rubbish in some areas.
No, hopefully not.But it will not be grossly underpowered like the Gonad
The FAA won't even allow the LET-410 in the USA because of the death toll it has taken over the years. I don't know it weak spot(s) but a lot of them crashed on takeoff.No, hopefully not.
Don't quite understand what you mean by that but the aircraft has a US TCDS.The FAA won't even allow the LET-410 in the USA because of the death toll it has taken over the years. I don't know it weak spot(s) but a lot of them crashed on takeoff.
gumbyk said:The FAA won't even allow the LET-410 in the USA because of the death toll it has taken over the years. I don't know it weak spot(s) but a lot of them crashed on takeoff.
gumbyk said:
No, hopefully not.
Gumbyk was commenting on the Nomad, also unofficially known as the Gonad as it really was a balls up. Fantastic potential but under-powered, small payload (because under-powered) yet a lot of good concepts - flat floor, constant rectangular section fuselage ideal for freight ops, big doors etc, no residual fuel (unuseable fuel is a waste of fuel and payload), ailerons droop to become flaps as the flaps extend and roll control transferred to spoilers, the main and nose wheels interchangeable (though most operators left the brake disc off), etc etc. Some things could have been executed better but at least the initial thought was there.
It also had its preventable problems like the original engine intakes that iced up badly (one aircraft in the PNG highlands lost both engines on take-off at around 20C and high humidity because the inlet shape created a low temperature low airflow region around the intake - there were lots of photos of the iced up intakes floating around for months after that), the battery and a bunch of critical circuit breakers in the front of the left pod that was far too flexible (which resulted in more than one losing critical instruments on takeoff from rough strips when the vibration popped the CBs), etc etc.
What the Gonad needed most was for each of the 250B17 powerplants to be replaced with the complete power unit off the Mitsubishi Mu2 - two men can remove it in 20 minutes and it is totally interchangeable side for side. Three bolts, a hand full of control links and fluid lines, start/gen wiring and two identical cannon plugs. Magic.
Incidentally, like the Let, the Mu2 has a bad reputation yet in the 80s/90s it had a far lower accident rate than the KingAir in accidents per units registered, accidents per cycle and accidents per flying hour.
It's not uncommon - Cessna single retractables suffered the same way. And why you see fewer retractable singles now.The Partenavia Victor was originally a fixed-gear twin. One author (Stinton?) mentioned that it's productivity (ton-miles/hr) of the R/G version was the same as the F/G version -- the weight of the retractable, vs fixed, gear caused enough loss in payload to wipe out the advantage in speed, as take-off weight couldn't be increased.
Also, fixed gear does remove a pilot-related failure mode: it's tough to forget to extend the gear.
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Although I have heard of somebody who managed to retract the gear on a Cessna 150 on landing. Something about a berm...
especially lack of APU for hot countries. The manufacturers lack of support is another minus.
but when operating from airports with 30C and above temperatures when it is not possible to park with the nose into wind you can quickly end up with high TOT and a forced shutdown and the resultant hassles. Other option which the pax really do not like is to clear all people from the area and unlock the prop brake then start and taxi to a place where the engine can cool down. The pax think you are absconding with their luggage etc and can get very agro. Not a problem on airports where you can always park facing into wind.The ATR doesn't need an APU, it has a prop brake, so can run the No.2 engine without the prop spinning and operate services using that. Manufacturer's support is an issue with ATR, the French are hard work! But it can be done as ATRs use a lot of existing components utilised in other types. It depends on the logistical supply chain at the location that makes life the most difficult.
but when operating from airports with 30C and above temperatures when it is not possible to park with the nose into wind you can quickly end up with high TOT and a forced shutdown and the resultant hassles. Other option which the pax really do not like is to clear all people from the area and unlock the prop brake then start and taxi to a place where the engine can cool down. The pax think you are absconding with their luggage etc and can get very agro. Not a problem on airports where you can always park facing into wind.
Agro Papua New Guineans at airports that are hot and high are not a desirable situation.
The ATR is perfect - having the baggage hold between the cockpit and cabin is perfect for that situation.Agro Papua New Guineans at airports that are hot and high are not a desirable situation.