cheddar cheese
Major General
As much as id have liked to vote F-14, it has to be the Lightning...
Cold War Intercept
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- #22
syscom3
Pacific Historian
It might be the colored thingy at the bottom rear of the tail fin. And the bullseye just under the cockpit is missing a color. And if its the same squadron, its also missing the "J" code.
Hey, isnt that the French tri-colors...... the unversal sign of surrender and submission?
Hey, isnt that the French tri-colors...... the unversal sign of surrender and submission?
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Maybe the gold triangle in front and behind of the roundel....
- Thread starter
- #26
Damn right, les. That's the 11 Sqdn. symbol as well as the eagles on the tail fin. The artist has missed them off ...when not around the roundal they were at the front lower of the tail.
The white on the roundal and bars (on the tail) was removed later on. Some roundals would be ringed with a dull yellow.
But, les got it. It's on the bottom one in this picture.
The white on the roundal and bars (on the tail) was removed later on. Some roundals would be ringed with a dull yellow.
But, les got it. It's on the bottom one in this picture.
Attachments
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Nice Shot!!!
- Thread starter
- #28
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Whoop whoop!!! Raise the roof my niggas......
Now.... What was my prize again???
Now.... What was my prize again???
- Thread starter
- #30
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
- Thread starter
- #32
I'm not worthy enough to be mentioned alongside a Lightning. Look at it this way, let's be honest, if the Lightning was a person it'd be a big mean arrogant prick and everyone wants to hate it ...but it's just too damn good to be hated by everyone ...I'm just not that good ...yet. 
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
if speed and climb coupled with altitude are the criteria the mig 25 is the beast it holds the record for climb to 15000metre 20000metres is almost mach 3 capable ceiling of 70000+
any of you lightning fans tell me the fuel consumption per minute of the avon at full power ?
any of you lightning fans tell me the fuel consumption per minute of the avon at full power ?
Attachments
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I got information on the Mig-25
Unquestionably the most impressive military aircraft to appear from the Soviet Union in 1967, the Mikoyan Gurevich MiG-25 "Foxbat" a reconnaisance aircraft equipped with powerful cameras and sensors was unique in combining spectacular speed (Mach 3) and climb performance with simplicity and ruggedness.
One of Soviet Russia's most prized and secret weapons, it was the one plane most feared in the West. In 1973, US. Air Force Secretary Robert C. Seamans deemed the Mig-25 as "Probably the best interceptor in production in the world today". In 1967 a stripped down Mig-25 set a world record by achieving a speed of 1,852 MPH and another aircraft set the altitude record by soaring to 118,898 feet. It became almost a Third World status-symbol back in seventies and eighties. It was replaced in the Soviet Union by the similar MiG-31. .
During the cold War the Russians were highly concerned about the United State's XB-70 supersonic bomber project. In response, they built the Mig-25 which was designed to be a Mach 2.8 Interceptor for countering air targets in all weather conditions, by day and by night and in dense hostile electronic warfare environments. This was the USSR's answer to the design in the US of fast, high flying aircraft as the XB-70, North American F-108 and Lockheed SR-71.
The MiG-25 lacked technological refinement, but its performance caused much concern in the west. It was designed to function both as a long- range interceptor and reconnaissance aircraft. The center fuselage is a big, welded steel fuel tank, so avionics, radar or cameras are in the nose. Speed is limited to Mach 2.83 mainly by controllability problems. The MiG-25 is a twin-finned high-wing monoplane with slightly swept wings and a variable angle tail plane. To improve the aircraft's longitudinal stability and to avert stall at steep angles and subsonic speed, there are two shallow upper surface fences on each wing. The high-wing monoplane configuration together with lateral air intakes both have the effect of reducing the loss of aerodynamic efficiency resulting from wing-fuselage interference.
The aircraft is powered by two 11200kg Tumansky R-15D-300 single shaft turbojets, arranged in the tail section of the fuselage. The engines develop 11,200 kgf of thrust with fully selected afterburner. The engines provide a maximum speed of 3,000 km/hour at high altitude. The maximum speed at low altitude is 1,200 km/hour. The aircraft has a service ceiling of 22,500 meters. The range at altitudes between 9 and 11 km with speed of Mach 0.85 is 1,950 km. At higher altitudes between20 and 21 km and speed Mach 2.35, the range is 1,650 km. The maximum in-service g-load is 4.5g's.
There are two-seat trainer versions of both the fighter and the reconnaissance version. Production of the fighter ended in 1983. The MiG-25 saw combat in several wars in the Middle East. Over 1200 have been built, of which about 75% were interceptors. The MiG-25 was produced by MAPO-MiG, the Moscow Aircraft Production Organisation MiG, which is based in Moscow and the Sokol Aircraft Manufacturing Plant Joint Stock Company at Nizhni Novgorod in Russia.
Lt. Viktor Belenko's defection to the West gave the United States the opportunity to closely examine the Mig-25. The aircraft was completely dismantled and then carefully inspected by aviation scientists and engineers from both Japan and the United States. Upon dismantling the Mig-25, the data was analyzed by the Foreign Technology Division of the Air Force at Dayton, Ohio.
"My God! Look what this thing is made of! Why, the dumb bastards don't have transistors; they're still using vacuum tubes! These engines are monsters! Maybe the Sovs have a separate refinery for each plane! Jesus! See these rivet heads sticking out, and look at that welding! They did it by hand! Hell, the pilot can't see a thing unless it's practically in front of him! This contraption isn't an airplane; it's a rocket! Hey, see what they've done here! How clever! They were able to use aluminum! Why didn't we ever think of that? How ingenious! It's brilliant!"--- MiG Pilot : The Final Escape of Lieutenant Belenko
There were many surprises:
--The Mig had been manufactured in February 1976 and thus was one of their latest most sophisticated production aircraft.
--Transistor circuitry was not used but instead the Soviets relied on high tech vacuum tubes for most of their electronics.
--Welding was done by hand.
--Rivet heads were exposed in areas not critical to parasitic aerodynamic drag. Pilot forward vision was highly obstructed.
--With huge Tumansky R-15D-300 engines the Mig was considered almost a rocket.
--Pilots were forbidden to exceed Mach 2.5. There was a total of three engine instruments and the airspeed indicator was redlined at 2.8 Mach.
--Above Mach 2.8 the engines would overheat and burn up. The Americans had clocked a Mig-25 over Israel at Mach 3.2 in 1973. Upon landing in Egypt, the engines were totally destroyed. The Americans did not understand that the engine destruction was inevitable.
--The combat radius is 186 miles.
--Without using afterburner; staying at optimum altitude and not maneuvering, the Mig can fly in a straight line for 744 miles.
--The plane was so heavy, at 64,200 pounds, that Soviet designers had to eliminate a pilot ejection system. Maximum operational altitude: Carrying two missiles, 78,740 feet (for maximum two minutes duration); carrying four missiles, 68,900 feet is maximum.
--Maximum altitude of missiles: 88,588 feet.
--Ability to intercept an SR-71: Belenko states the Mig-25 cannot intercept the SR-71 for several reasons: The SR-71 fly too high and too fast; the Mig cannot reach it or catch it. The missiles lack the velocity to overtake the SR-71 and in the event of a head on missile fire (The Golden BB), the Guidance system cannot adjust to the high closure rate of the SR-71.
--The Mig-25 has a jam proof radar but cannot distinguish targets below 1,640 feet due to ground clutter. The radar was so powerful it could burn through jamming signals by approaching bombers.
--Maximum G load: With full fuel tanks 2.2 G's is max; with near empty fuel tanks, 5 G's is dangerous. The Mig-25 cannot turn inside a U.S. F-4 Phantom fighter!
--The plane was made of steel alloy, not high temperature titanium, although strips of titanium was used in areas of high heat concentration.
--In a tight turn the missiles could be ripped from the wings.
--The Mig-25 was was not a fighter or an air superiority aircraft but rather designed by the Soviets to climb at tremendous speeds, fire missiles at one pass of the target and then land.
--Search and tracking radar had a range of 55.9 miles.
--The pilot duties were to take off, turn on the auto pilot and await instructions to fire the missiles from ground controllers. The Mig-25 had a superb auto pilot and digital communications from an onboard computer to ground controllers.
--Credit is given to the Soviets for building a high altitude Interceptor in a short period of time with the materials and engines available to them in 1967 in order to counter the perceived threat of the XB-70.
On November 12, 1976, sixty-seven days after the defection of Belenko and his Mig-25 to the West, the United States and Japan returned the Mig-25 to Russia...in dismantled pieces
Anybody remember that guy from Austrailia I got into the argument with when he said the Mig-25 could out maneuver an F-15?
Unquestionably the most impressive military aircraft to appear from the Soviet Union in 1967, the Mikoyan Gurevich MiG-25 "Foxbat" a reconnaisance aircraft equipped with powerful cameras and sensors was unique in combining spectacular speed (Mach 3) and climb performance with simplicity and ruggedness.
One of Soviet Russia's most prized and secret weapons, it was the one plane most feared in the West. In 1973, US. Air Force Secretary Robert C. Seamans deemed the Mig-25 as "Probably the best interceptor in production in the world today". In 1967 a stripped down Mig-25 set a world record by achieving a speed of 1,852 MPH and another aircraft set the altitude record by soaring to 118,898 feet. It became almost a Third World status-symbol back in seventies and eighties. It was replaced in the Soviet Union by the similar MiG-31. .
During the cold War the Russians were highly concerned about the United State's XB-70 supersonic bomber project. In response, they built the Mig-25 which was designed to be a Mach 2.8 Interceptor for countering air targets in all weather conditions, by day and by night and in dense hostile electronic warfare environments. This was the USSR's answer to the design in the US of fast, high flying aircraft as the XB-70, North American F-108 and Lockheed SR-71.
The MiG-25 lacked technological refinement, but its performance caused much concern in the west. It was designed to function both as a long- range interceptor and reconnaissance aircraft. The center fuselage is a big, welded steel fuel tank, so avionics, radar or cameras are in the nose. Speed is limited to Mach 2.83 mainly by controllability problems. The MiG-25 is a twin-finned high-wing monoplane with slightly swept wings and a variable angle tail plane. To improve the aircraft's longitudinal stability and to avert stall at steep angles and subsonic speed, there are two shallow upper surface fences on each wing. The high-wing monoplane configuration together with lateral air intakes both have the effect of reducing the loss of aerodynamic efficiency resulting from wing-fuselage interference.
The aircraft is powered by two 11200kg Tumansky R-15D-300 single shaft turbojets, arranged in the tail section of the fuselage. The engines develop 11,200 kgf of thrust with fully selected afterburner. The engines provide a maximum speed of 3,000 km/hour at high altitude. The maximum speed at low altitude is 1,200 km/hour. The aircraft has a service ceiling of 22,500 meters. The range at altitudes between 9 and 11 km with speed of Mach 0.85 is 1,950 km. At higher altitudes between20 and 21 km and speed Mach 2.35, the range is 1,650 km. The maximum in-service g-load is 4.5g's.
There are two-seat trainer versions of both the fighter and the reconnaissance version. Production of the fighter ended in 1983. The MiG-25 saw combat in several wars in the Middle East. Over 1200 have been built, of which about 75% were interceptors. The MiG-25 was produced by MAPO-MiG, the Moscow Aircraft Production Organisation MiG, which is based in Moscow and the Sokol Aircraft Manufacturing Plant Joint Stock Company at Nizhni Novgorod in Russia.
Lt. Viktor Belenko's defection to the West gave the United States the opportunity to closely examine the Mig-25. The aircraft was completely dismantled and then carefully inspected by aviation scientists and engineers from both Japan and the United States. Upon dismantling the Mig-25, the data was analyzed by the Foreign Technology Division of the Air Force at Dayton, Ohio.
"My God! Look what this thing is made of! Why, the dumb bastards don't have transistors; they're still using vacuum tubes! These engines are monsters! Maybe the Sovs have a separate refinery for each plane! Jesus! See these rivet heads sticking out, and look at that welding! They did it by hand! Hell, the pilot can't see a thing unless it's practically in front of him! This contraption isn't an airplane; it's a rocket! Hey, see what they've done here! How clever! They were able to use aluminum! Why didn't we ever think of that? How ingenious! It's brilliant!"--- MiG Pilot : The Final Escape of Lieutenant Belenko
There were many surprises:
--The Mig had been manufactured in February 1976 and thus was one of their latest most sophisticated production aircraft.
--Transistor circuitry was not used but instead the Soviets relied on high tech vacuum tubes for most of their electronics.
--Welding was done by hand.
--Rivet heads were exposed in areas not critical to parasitic aerodynamic drag. Pilot forward vision was highly obstructed.
--With huge Tumansky R-15D-300 engines the Mig was considered almost a rocket.
--Pilots were forbidden to exceed Mach 2.5. There was a total of three engine instruments and the airspeed indicator was redlined at 2.8 Mach.
--Above Mach 2.8 the engines would overheat and burn up. The Americans had clocked a Mig-25 over Israel at Mach 3.2 in 1973. Upon landing in Egypt, the engines were totally destroyed. The Americans did not understand that the engine destruction was inevitable.
--The combat radius is 186 miles.
--Without using afterburner; staying at optimum altitude and not maneuvering, the Mig can fly in a straight line for 744 miles.
--The plane was so heavy, at 64,200 pounds, that Soviet designers had to eliminate a pilot ejection system. Maximum operational altitude: Carrying two missiles, 78,740 feet (for maximum two minutes duration); carrying four missiles, 68,900 feet is maximum.
--Maximum altitude of missiles: 88,588 feet.
--Ability to intercept an SR-71: Belenko states the Mig-25 cannot intercept the SR-71 for several reasons: The SR-71 fly too high and too fast; the Mig cannot reach it or catch it. The missiles lack the velocity to overtake the SR-71 and in the event of a head on missile fire (The Golden BB), the Guidance system cannot adjust to the high closure rate of the SR-71.
--The Mig-25 has a jam proof radar but cannot distinguish targets below 1,640 feet due to ground clutter. The radar was so powerful it could burn through jamming signals by approaching bombers.
--Maximum G load: With full fuel tanks 2.2 G's is max; with near empty fuel tanks, 5 G's is dangerous. The Mig-25 cannot turn inside a U.S. F-4 Phantom fighter!
--The plane was made of steel alloy, not high temperature titanium, although strips of titanium was used in areas of high heat concentration.
--In a tight turn the missiles could be ripped from the wings.
--The Mig-25 was was not a fighter or an air superiority aircraft but rather designed by the Soviets to climb at tremendous speeds, fire missiles at one pass of the target and then land.
--Search and tracking radar had a range of 55.9 miles.
--The pilot duties were to take off, turn on the auto pilot and await instructions to fire the missiles from ground controllers. The Mig-25 had a superb auto pilot and digital communications from an onboard computer to ground controllers.
--Credit is given to the Soviets for building a high altitude Interceptor in a short period of time with the materials and engines available to them in 1967 in order to counter the perceived threat of the XB-70.
On November 12, 1976, sixty-seven days after the defection of Belenko and his Mig-25 to the West, the United States and Japan returned the Mig-25 to Russia...in dismantled pieces
Anybody remember that guy from Austrailia I got into the argument with when he said the Mig-25 could out maneuver an F-15?
Nope...
Nice info FBJ!
Nice info FBJ!
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
what i thought most amazing of the mig 25 was the use of alcohol or the like in the hydraulic systems and rthe ground crew were sampling it regularly thats from somewhere in the balanko book when it came out
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
pbfoot said:
I read the book, yep that's pretty amazing! I remember reading about his crew chief falling off the boarding ladder and passing out as he was getting ready for a sortie.
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
ref the one pass with an interceptor thats what they are designed to do take off point at the targets as GCI (ground control Intercept)--directs them destroy them and get back and turnaround if they still have an aerodome not usually a lot of yanking or banking in theory ;ground control in north america is by norad and i think ukadge in the uk . Most of the ac have a data link allowing them to be "steered " by gci guys
- Thread starter
- #39
I don't know the fuel consumption of the Avon at full power, but the Lightning has a combat radius of 400 miles.
And from that post Joe kindly made (Excellent information) it's obvious that the MiG-25 was not a capable interceptor. Climb and speed alone do not make a remarkable interceptor but they are important. However, if the MiG-25s weapons systems could not detect, lock on and destroy it's target then it's a pointless venture. How many MiG-25s would be operational at any one time? It's less modern than a Lightning, and the Lightning was maintenance intensive.
Also, from call to altitude the MiG-25 would have been slower than the Lightning. Why? Vacuum tubes need to warm up. With that "sophisticated" auto-pilot and control system it would take a lot of vacuum tubes which need to warm up. And while the MiG-25 is sat there warming up, the Lightning has already gone. And it's missiles won't detach from it ...and the Lightning will be able to go to 88,000 feet with it's two missiles. And it's two missiles can actually hit aircraft. And ...well, the Lightning was just better.
And from that post Joe kindly made (Excellent information) it's obvious that the MiG-25 was not a capable interceptor. Climb and speed alone do not make a remarkable interceptor but they are important. However, if the MiG-25s weapons systems could not detect, lock on and destroy it's target then it's a pointless venture. How many MiG-25s would be operational at any one time? It's less modern than a Lightning, and the Lightning was maintenance intensive.
Also, from call to altitude the MiG-25 would have been slower than the Lightning. Why? Vacuum tubes need to warm up. With that "sophisticated" auto-pilot and control system it would take a lot of vacuum tubes which need to warm up. And while the MiG-25 is sat there warming up, the Lightning has already gone. And it's missiles won't detach from it ...and the Lightning will be able to go to 88,000 feet with it's two missiles. And it's two missiles can actually hit aircraft. And ...well, the Lightning was just better.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Agree - you could barley turn a Mig-25 with missiles on its wings. The Mig-25 was designed for one thing - to stop the B-70 which never materialized.
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