Collins Foundation B-17 crashed at Bradley
- Thread starter Capt. Vick
- Start date
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FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
That strip is so spot on.
Zippythehog
Senior Airman
- 740
- Jan 7, 2017
As I red Dilbert in the papers, I always laughed. Then after a while, it occurred to me that it was just true. And then it just brought me down because of the ludicrous reality of management.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
jimh
Senior Airman
I can't begin to tell you guys how disappointed I am in this whole mess. A lot went wrong that morning but none of us (old schoolers) saw coming what the FAA reported about the maintenance. I haven't been involved with them going on 4 years now...and it's painful to see that. We ran a tight ship, we had an excellent budget and lots of spare parts. Yes, American Aero did/does the annuals, but we maintained them on the tour per the military maintenance books. 50, 100 hour inspections, gear swings, you name it, we did it on the tour and planned accordingly based on known facilities, jack availability, and flight times. Losing Mac, Mike, the lives behind them, and 909, is going to take a long time to process. tragic
Agreed . I only knew Mac casually from the Worcester stops but he was always nice. I'll miss that leathery smile...
Crimea_River
Marshal
Videos on the NTSB Factual Reports on this crash here. Quite interesting:
Don't you just wonder if that loadmaster who went out to "blow out" #3's and #4's mags (which he'd never done before) put everything back correctly when he was done? Like the P leads on #4? And did #3 get freshly rebuilt mags on it's overhaul 300 hours ago, or just the mags from the old engine? Sure looked like long term moisture damage. Those things manufacture water, just like half full gas tanks.
I know our flying club planes at Key West would rot out their Slick (one-shot, non-repairable) mags at a phenomenal rate in the humid salt climate with coral dust everywhere. The supposedly "lifetime" mags would need to be replaced at least at engine TBO if not sooner.
Complex machine + ancient technology + volunteer labor + demanding schedule = recipe for disaster. "The Book" only works if you follow it!
Ditto, recurrent training and CRM.
I know our flying club planes at Key West would rot out their Slick (one-shot, non-repairable) mags at a phenomenal rate in the humid salt climate with coral dust everywhere. The supposedly "lifetime" mags would need to be replaced at least at engine TBO if not sooner.
Complex machine + ancient technology + volunteer labor + demanding schedule = recipe for disaster. "The Book" only works if you follow it!
Ditto, recurrent training and CRM.
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After looking at the detailed profile of 909's last flight, you gotta wonder about some of the training that took place (or didn't). I wonder if either of the pilots had ever been subjected to an actual VMC roll-off in training. I was run through that several times in my multi engine training, in my multi CFI course, and in training in the 99 and 1900, and I similarly abused my multi students. It's one of those things that has to be handled exactly right or else. The single "VMC demonstration" mandated by the FAA isn't enough, and an instructor needs to make a student repeat it until they get it right. This is definitely risky business and an instructor needs to be on top of his/her game or not do multi training at all. My instructors were, and they were relentless, a lesson I took to heart and tried to pass on. I even had to tell one fellow, after twenty hours of training, that he didn't have a future as a multi engine pilot, and to stop drooling over the Twin Comanche that was for sale in the next hangar and be satisfied with his Piper Arrow.
"Mac" Macauley deserves our respect and admiration for his dedication, his work, and his leadership. Still, you've got to wonder about anyone who's a Johnny-come-lately to multi engine and crew served aircraft after three+ decades of single engine, single pilot, private flying and habit building. The narrative of the flight seems to imply a captain operating in single pilot mode and getting cognitively overwhelmed in the process. The habitual "gear down" midfield on the downwind, and the turn into a "properly spaced" downwind seem to point to a triumph of habit over training in a high stress situation, which tends to be more prevalent with age, especially with men. I know it is in my case. I also know that if I owned a precious relic like 909 I'd be pretty leery of practicing VMC rolls in it,* and I'd have a tough time staying ahead of the maintenance. Rock and a hard place. Procedures, crew coordination, briefings, checklists, engine runups, all the things that should have happened and apparently didn't.
Any broken link in this tragic chain of events could have saved the day.
RIP Mac & crew.
*especially since VMC and stall are so close together in the B17.
"Mac" Macauley deserves our respect and admiration for his dedication, his work, and his leadership. Still, you've got to wonder about anyone who's a Johnny-come-lately to multi engine and crew served aircraft after three+ decades of single engine, single pilot, private flying and habit building. The narrative of the flight seems to imply a captain operating in single pilot mode and getting cognitively overwhelmed in the process. The habitual "gear down" midfield on the downwind, and the turn into a "properly spaced" downwind seem to point to a triumph of habit over training in a high stress situation, which tends to be more prevalent with age, especially with men. I know it is in my case. I also know that if I owned a precious relic like 909 I'd be pretty leery of practicing VMC rolls in it,* and I'd have a tough time staying ahead of the maintenance. Rock and a hard place. Procedures, crew coordination, briefings, checklists, engine runups, all the things that should have happened and apparently didn't.
Any broken link in this tragic chain of events could have saved the day.
RIP Mac & crew.
*especially since VMC and stall are so close together in the B17.
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I hated VMC demos during my training. We did them at a suitable altitude, but they still gave me the creeps. There's something about running out of the one control that you need to keep from stalling/spinning. Luckily we had the luxury of being able to accept a heading loss, and swap altitude for airspeed top recover. I can't imagine being under VMC and losing an engine on takeoff.
Imagine it every time!
"THIS takeoff is the one when we WILL lose the critical engine at V1+1. Our predetermined plan of action is:..."
(Light recip twin) ABORT takeoff if below VXse. Better a right side up overrun than an inverted crash."
(Turboprop twin w/autofeather) continue the takeoff, holding precisely to V speeds, gear up ASAP, perform checklist."
Mantra for every "Line up and wait".
Imagine it every time!
The antidote to fear of skids is to go out to a large empty parking lot on a snowy day and cut donuts 'til the fear in you subsides.
DITTO, running out of control in an airplane. Stalls, spins, VMC practice: they all build your confidence in your competence at the "hairy edge" of control. (Hard-ass CFIspeak) Shape up or ship out. The laws of physics will cut you no slack.
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Yeah - we did imagine it, but that was as far as it ever went for me. I didn't get past light piston twins, so it was always, 'below blue line, close both throttles, land straight ahead'
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Pardon my ignorance but what is a "VMC Demonstration"?
Velocity - minimum control. It's the airspeed that, if you are below it, and lose an engine, you don't have enough rudder power to keep the aircraft straight. You have a choice to either put the nose down to gain airspeed and control, or if you can't, then close all throttles and land straight ahead.
Don't get me wrong, I felt that I was competent in both the recovery and avoidance, and muscle memory would likely have kicked in. Doesn't mean I enjoyed it...
Spins however, I enjoy them.
In multi engine training, it's a lesson where the instructor slows the airplane (on one engine) gradually until, at VMC, there is no longer enough rudder authority to overcome the yaw induced by asymmetric thrust. At that point the rudder is all the way to the floor, and the plane starts to roll opposite the rudder into the dead engine. This has to be accomplished gradually and with finesse, as an abrupt entry can result in an asymmetric stall and a spin entry, which can be difficult to recover from if allowed to wind up.
This is pretty stressful on the student, as he/she is a hostage, along for the ride, with no control. I found my students more stressed out about VMC after the demo than before, a factor likely to contribute to panic in a "for real" situation.
Consequently, we would do more repetitions, first with the student "following through" on the controls, then with the student flying and me coaching. Recovery can entail some rather abrupt attitude changes, especially in the case of a clumsy entry, as it would in a real life situation, so it's best if a student doesn't see it for the first time "for real".
"Power back, stuff that nose DOWN, no blue in your windshield! Stop the rotation! Now gently ease out of your dive."
Ready to try it?
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I'm quite content to be one of the seat moisteners in the back. Try not to spill my drink.
Spill it? Hell, you'll be wearing it!
Alcohol is a great face sanitizer! 140 proof minimum, per CDC.
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