Could the P51A have been made available to the defenders at the Battle of Midway?

[oldcrowcv63]

I don't disgrace that easily, Crow. This is good supplemental detail. Quite the contrary, I appreciate it.

Definitely didn't mean to disgrace. I think your essential point was accurate. I just find the "unescorted" claim to have been made so often it's a knee jerk reaction to correct. It also casts doubt on the usual and even more frequent claim that the TBDs cleared the skies of the CAP so the SBDs could have their way. If any credit is deserved for that service, I suspect Thach and company deserves a fair amount of it.

 

[VBF-13]

I just find the "unescorted" claim to have been made so often it's a knee jerk reaction to correct. It also casts doubt on the usual and even more frequent claim that the TBDs cleared the skies of the CAP so the SBDs could have their way. If any credit is deserved for that service, I suspect Thach and company deserves a fair amount of it.

Crow, I just noticed this. I was thinking of Torpedo Squadron Eight launched from the Hornet. I didn't try and fact-check this but just off the top of my head I had something like 16(?) of those aircraft coming in alone. If there's any truth to that it would explain the "knee jerk reaction" you say you're accustomed to hearing, as we'd be talking two different torpedo squadrons.

At any rate, I'll just tell you what I know. This would be from a close family-friend who flew these. FWIW, these aircraft were hardly what one would describe as "acrobatic," especially, with that torpedo under their belly. Once they dropped those, they were out of there. If they didn't have sufficient fighter-support to keep any enemy aircraft encountered off their backs, they were in trouble. Even if they ditched their torpedoes, they were no match for any enemy fighter-type aircraft. When we launched Torpedo Squadron Eight we didn't know exactly what those skies would be like when they got there. We took a chance.

Finally, just a quick word on those dive bombers. One has to be mindful, I'd think, of their approach. Compared to the torpedo bombers, the dive bombers were a virtual "blitzkrieg." They didn't nickname the SBD the "Speedy D" for nothing. They were much harder targets than were the torpedo bombers. I still think that's probably the single-most important factor in terms of explaining their success.

 

[oldcrowcv63]

Embarked VT-8 aircraft launched against Nagumo's Kido Butai was 15 TBDs. Land based VT-8 detachment included 6 TBF-1s. The 15 VT-8 and the 14 TBDs of VT-6 also came in unescorted. Actually VT-8 ( VT-6?) had an escort of 10 VF-6 F4F-4 but unlike the Yorktown's air group, the Enterprise and Hornet launched individual squadrons that proceeded to the target area and executed uncoordinated attacks. VF-6 CO Jim Gray didn't coordinate his arrival with that of the slower aircraft of VT-6. He orbited at 20,000 ft awaiting a call for assistance (which never came) until he was low on gas and returned to the Enterprise. Needless to say he caught some heat over this. I agree the SBD was effective and a hard target for sure, and for a variety of reasons.

But mainly I believe their success was due to the IJN's inability to mount and coordinate an effective high altitude CAP due to their lack of a RADAR fighter direction system (thank you very much Commonwealth cousins), which was a problem throughout the war. The SBDs virtually always got through, in part because they were an excellent platform but also because they faced an opposition that was determined but diffuse in its execution. Of course, on occasion there were some losses, especially on egress from the battle area. By comparison, in the afternoon, flying against the Hiryu, some 24 SBDs successfully attacked a carrier defended by more than a dozen A6Ms, suffering relatively light losses. This can be compared to the 18 VALs that attacked the Yorktown which was defended by approximately the same number of F4F. Only about 5 VALs survived the attack. While the VAL lacked armor SST, it was reported to be exceptionally maneuverable.

 

[VBF-13]

OK. It looks like I went to school on you, again. Thanks, again, Crow.