Covid-19 reports

Good point. I once saw a show in which behavioral risk was discussed. An engineer talked about how the increased safety features on cars resulted in people engaging in riskier driving. He made the tongue in cheek suggestion that the way to improve driving safety was to replace the air bag with a large spike pointed at the chest of the driver.

Greg Boeser said:

The report recommends neither for nor against its use to treat (not cure) Covid. Everybody wants the silver bullet, but each person is unique. Treatments that work on some are deadly for others, which is why the vaccine has killed thousands. The percentage of people dying from the vaccine is a miniscule fraction of those dosed, but if you are one of the unfortunate ones, what difference does it make whether it was the disease or the cure that killed you?

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Uh, care to show where thousands have died from the vaccine? That is factually untrue…

In fact there are three, 3, THREE confirmed accounts where someone died from the vaccine in the United States. Three..

The story of thousands is another case of misinterpreted reports, and false misinformation campaigns.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

In fact there are three, 3, THREE confirmed accounts where someone died from the vaccine in the United States. Three..

The story of thousands is another case of misinterpreted reports, and false misinformation campaigns.

No, the CDC’s VAERS database does not show thousands of people have died from COVID-19 vaccines

The questions about vaccine-related deaths have increased since the FDA recently granted full approval to Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine.

www.google.com

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From what I understand, if there is a suspected death from a reaction, it gets added to the list, and then investigated. If it's then determined that it wasn't vaccine related, then its removed.

Greg Boeser said:

Good point. I once saw a show in which behavioral risk was discussed. An engineer talked about how the increased safety features on cars resulted in people engaging in riskier driving. He made the tongue in cheek suggestion that the way to improve driving safety was to replace the air bag with a large spike pointed at the chest of the driver.

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This is utter nonsense. Did the engineer actually know the history of automobiles? In the 1950s it was common for a steering wheel to be obviously dangerous to the driver, it didnt slow anyone down and didnt stop the cars being made until the manufacturers were told to stop it by crash tests. example below, and there are worse, I just cant be bothered to trawl all the pictures

gumbyk said:

From what I understand, if there is a suspected death from a reaction, it gets added to the list, and then investigated. If it's then determined that it wasn't vaccine related, then its removed.

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There have been three confirmed vaccine related deaths (in the USA). Thats it. The thousands number originated on social media.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

There have been three confirmed vaccine related deaths (in the USA). Thats it. The thousands number originated on social media.

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In UK a death with a positive covid test one month before has it recorded on the death certificate whether covid had any involvement in the death or not, when you have 1,350 people dying every day for all reasons, covid can kill itself, it can accelerate death or it can have no influence at all (like a passenger in a car crash) but all are added to the statistics.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

There have been three confirmed vaccine related deaths (in the USA). Thats it. The thousands number originated on social media.

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I think we're both saying essentially the same thing - suspected deaths get added to the list pending confirmation, and then almost certainly get removed.

We've had one confirmed death here from about 1.5 million who have both doses and a further two million who have one.

A group of quacks in the US called the "America's Frontline Doctors", which has been known to spread misinformation and fake news made a bogus claim that 45,000 people (That's right 45,000… ) have died because of the vaccine in 72 hours. There is no evidence and has been debunked by any credible source.

It's funny, the people who screamed "Fake News" the last 6 years are the ones duped by actual fake news, and don't even realize it.

So quoting a paper from April about a single type of adverse reaction is proof that there have only been 3 confirmed deaths?

Greg Boeser said:

So quoting a paper from April about a single type of adverse reaction is proof that there have only been 3 confirmed deaths?

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Ok, you made the claim of thousands. Back it up with proof.

Unfortunately, I can't. I don't have access to all the medical records of all the people who have been reported to VAERS.
Also, I have experience with reporting adverse reactions to vaccines. The medical establishment is very reluctant to confirm that a condition that manifested a short time after a vaccination is caused by the vaccination. Best to repeat the "safe and effective" mantra. By the way, I am not anti-vax. My family is current on all vaccines recommended by our doctors.
Just let me check my rabies and distemper tags. Yep, we're good.

For what its worth to some...

The danger here is stupidity v stupid.

By offering alternative views you may not be telling the truth. This is fine when it's flat earth or aliens or chemtrails cos that's just stupidity. But when it's people's lives then that is simply unfair.

By saying the vaccine is dangerous when you have no proof other than hearsay and nonsense is just wrong.

That means people are going to not take it.

I am expert on covid and I can guarantee you dollars to donuts that people will die from it. Yes, the sick and elderly and already infirm but they will die from covid nevertheless.

So it should be our role and responsibility to say that vaccine is worthwhile and that following social rules should be done.

It may not save lives but it could limit the number who die.

Statistics are what they are. If you ask every citiizen in the USA to run the 100 metres then yes people will die doing so. The fact that one individual died because of the vaccine does not mean the people who were saved because of the vaccine are not counted.

Hey Greg Boeser,

re ". . . The medical establishment is very reluctant to confirm that a condition that manifested a short time after a vaccination is caused by the vaccination. Best to repeat the "safe and effective" mantra. . ."

I assume that you do not know that these statements are actually the opposite of what is the case. The "medical establishment" is told to look for any serious medical event that might reasonably be linked to the vaccines, and report such events to the CDC - usually through the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System). They are encouraged to report on the basis of worst possible case - and let the epidemiological studies sort out which are accurately attributable to receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, and which are not.

Hey anyone re '45,000 deaths' due to COVID-19 vaccines,

For any large number of deaths to occur and go unreported by the "medical establishment", EVERY professional in the "medical establishment" would have to be part of the conspiracy to keep it quiet. EVERY DOCTOR, EVERY NURSE, EVERY CORONER, etc - EVERYONE. The fact that the "medical establishment" has not reported 45,000 vaccine caused deaths since the vaccination program began (let alone in a 72 hr period) should tell any rational person that there have not been 45,000 deaths due to the COVID-19 vaccines. While the drug companies have a monetary interest in the vaccines, 99% of the "medical establishment" personnel have no vested interest in the COVID-19 vaccines - other than that the vaccines reduce the amount of suffering they have to deal with, reduce the number of deaths they have to witness, and reduce their workload.

I cannot speak for every member of the professional "medical establishment", only for the ones that I know, and I think I can accurately say that none of them would accept a cover-up. Not the ones in the North Memorial system, not the ones in the HCMC Hennepin County system, not the ones in the UofM medical system, not the ones in the US Army or Navy Medical Corps.

On the other hand, America's Frontline Doctors is a for profit business. They currently make a huge percentage of their income through online consults with the patients and prescribing treatment with drugs like Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, etc. - that have no proven benefit in the area of COVID-19 treatment. They charge $90 for the initial contact, then go up from there. The drugs they prescribe, they also sell - for 2-3x as much as you would pay if the drugs were being prescribed by a reputable doctor for an accepted medical regimen. Their services (re COVID-19 treatment) are not covered by any medical insurance provider (in any country, as far as I can find) and they are not regulated as such. Because of the lack of regulation they can prescribe any method of treatment they wish, without penalty, provided that it can not be proven to cause serious harm or death. They can prescribe water, vinegar, mineral oil, or any other quackery they choose - and charge you as much as you are willing to pay. To make up and/or repeat lies that scare ignorant people into accepting 'alternative treatments' makes perfectly rational sense for them - evil sense, but rational since it helps them get what they want.

Greg Boeser said:

Unfortunately, I can't. I don't have access to all the medical records of all the people who have been reported to VAERS.
Also, I have experience with reporting adverse reactions to vaccines. The medical establishment is very reluctant to confirm that a condition that manifested a short time after a vaccination is caused by the vaccination. Best to repeat the "safe and effective" mantra. By the way, I am not anti-vax. My family is current on all vaccines recommended by our doctors.
Just let me check my rabies and distemper tags. Yep, we're good.

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And the CDC has reported that VAERS does not say that thousands of deaths attributed to the vaccination have died. In fact it was three. People purposely trying to report misinformation are taking thr data from VAERS and purposely misreporting it. Its another prime example of fake news and people being duped by it, usually by the "Everything that does not agree with my preconceived bias is Fake News crowd."

*Note: not saying you are one of these people. Although you are spreading Fake News if you are going around telling people that thousands of people have died from the vaccine.

Italy report, 13th September, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,609,205 +34,418, deaths 129,955 +388, recovered 4,353,346, +44,146, active cases 125,904, -10,116, tests 58,398,719, +702,588, people tested 33,300,869, +403,165, vaccines administered 81,017,649, +1,633,874, people full vaccinated 40,006,727, +1,154,240.
fatality rate 2.8% (=)
mortality rate 2,155 per million (+7)
positive rate 13.8% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 1,343,198 per million (+27,089)
people full vaccinated 663,274 per million (+19,136)
test rate this week 11,648 per million (+73)
positive rate this week 8.5% (-1)
new case rate this week 571 per million (-97)
new vaccines this week 27,088 per million (-7,075)
people full vaccinated this week 19,136 per million (-2,183)

Double standard. Every death within 30 days of a positive Covid test is to be regarded as a Covid death unless it can be proven that the death was not from Covid (Homicide, car accident, suicide, etc.) Do those states that allow assisted suicide report a person who ends their life after a positive Covid test count that as a Covid death?
Any death reported following a Covid vaccine should not be regarded as a vaccine death unless there is thorough proof. Apparently nobody has looked at the reports since April, so no more vaccine deaths. Simple.

Greg Boeser said:

Double standard. Every death within 30 days of a positive Covid test is to be regarded as a Covid death unless it can be proven that the death was not from Covid (Homicide, car accident, suicide, etc.) Do those states that allow assisted suicide report a person who ends their life after a positive Covid test count that as a Covid death?
Any death reported following a Covid vaccine should not be regarded as a vaccine death unless there is thorough proof. Apparently nobody has looked at the reports since April, so no more vaccine deaths. Simple.

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No, double standard at all. if the vaccine caused the death it should be reported as a vaccine death.

So I ask again, are you going to provide factual evidence to back your claim, or just spread misinformation and fake news? You made the claim, so back it up.

Also show something other than fake news that shows that non-covid deaths are being reported as actual covid deaths. Thats been debunked too.