Crazy German Experimental Planes

[Lightning Guy]

I think a better view of the Battle of the Bulge would be from a 9th AF or 2 Tac. AF group. They were the ones that turned the battle around and I'm always happy to see WWII aircombat in film.

 

[plan_D]

The 101st actually lost it for the Germans. They weren't expecting anyone to hold on, and the 101st did slowing their blitzkrieg.

 

[Lightning Guy]

The 101st definitely through a kink in things. But it was air power that allowed the Allies to route the German forces once the weather cleared.

 

[plan_D]

Yes, of course the air power was the winning factor. The air power however did not push the Germans back, it allowed our ground forces to do it.
If the 101st hadn't stopped the Germans, they could have caught our fuel supplies which would have enhanced their supply, and ground our forces to a halt with shortages.

 

[Andrew]

The German advance into the Ardennes Region caught both the British, Canadian and American Forces on the hop, but what a lot of the History books don't tell you is that within 24 hrs of the Germans breaking through the thinly held American lines, General Montgomery had issued orders to the Canadian and British Forces, to form a defensive line along the River Meuse, because Montgomery realised that the Germans wanted to get to Antwerp, if they had acheived this, they would have split the allied Forces in two, and we may have had to organise another Dunkirk, also what most history books don't tell you is that the American Forces north of the bulge were placed under the Comand of Mongomery.

Although Air Power played a major part in winning the battle of the Bulge, the Germans would not have been able to get further than the River Meuse.

 

[plan_D]

You underestimate the capabilities, and equipment of the Wehrmacht. Yes, I know the British and Canadians were very well organised, and efficient fighters and our command was top notch but the Germans were sending their best units through Ardennes. The poor equipment, mainly in tanks, we had would have not been able to withstand the sheer force of German tanks, not only in number but in technology.

I personally think if the weather hadn't cleared the Germans would have made it to Antwerp.

 

[Lightning Guy]

The Americans were also rushing reinforcements to the area. But at best all the Allied armies could have really hoped to do was fight a delaying action until the weather cleared.

 

[plan_D]

The Americans were rushing their people there, that's why the British and Canadians took cover as well.

Even with the Americans, and the Canadian and British defensive line the Germans would have been through it like a hot knife through butter.
The two huge saves in that were the final clear weather, and the 'Screaming Eagles'.

 

[Lightning Guy]

One of the German generals, I don't remember which, said that the German armies should have gotten on their knees and thanked God if they reached the Meuse. The only way their attack would work is if there were no hold ups and lousy weather. Fortunately, they had neither.

 

[Erich]

sorry but the Wehrmacht did not have the fuel reserves to commit to such a large undertaking and simply this was the role of failure.

E ~

 

[plan_D]

It was actually a very good idea, and was the best idea they had between 1942 and 1945. 1944 was the reintroduction of Heinz Guderian probably the smartest man of the war in military tactics. Hitler gave him the go ahead in 1939 and 1940, then forgot him and pushed him aside in 1942 and 1943 then realising his mistake in 1944 when the Battle of the Bulge came.

The idea was brilliant, it was to capture the fuel reserves of the Allied Army and drive a wedge between the forces. Without the 'Screaming Eagles' this would have been achieved. They were taking a risk, but everything is a risk in war.

 

[Erich]

as mentioned it would of been helpful to have a large force of Luftwaffe fighters flying high cover but the Germans were always outnumbered by huge amounts. Possibly the only action of note for Germany concerning air tactics was the 'loser' operations Bodenplatte.

A fantastic book on the operation from Dutch authors Ron Putz and John Manhro has just been released through http://www.hikokiwarplanes.com

should be listed somewhere and now has been published. Mine is in the mail and you English gents should take prime opportunity to pick up a copy


E ~

 

[Lightning Guy]

Bodenplatte was a bold idea (like the Bulge) but in the end it virtually finished the Luftwaffe as an offensive force just as the Bulge had done to the Wermacht.

 

[plan_D]

They were both very risky operations, but without taking risks you cannot achieve. Unfortunately (for the Germans) these risks didn't pay off and destroyed the German war machine, if they had paid off it might have been the Germans marching victorious.

 

[Lightning Guy]

Well, what I have read is that the Germans weren't expecting to win the war with these operations. They were mostly hoping to put the Allies in such a spot that a separate peace seemed like a good idea. That way the Germans could focus on the Soviet Union (and there would be NO separate peace there!).

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

they must have seen that they were going to loose the whole war anyway................

 

[Erich]

propaganda does wonders, does it not ? Promises of jet fighters in numbers that the Allies had never seen was a cry to the front and the feelings that the Luftwaffe, "our air force" would make this campaign succesful............... well it is obvious it didn't happen. the British and US day fighter forces took it to the Luftwaffe with incredibly high losses to be suffered by the Germans.

E ~

 

[plan_D]

The Battle of the Bulge was to push the Western Allies back to their beach head, and yes, sue for seperate peace, then turn on the Soviet Union. By victory I mean a better outcome than what they got.
If they had kept half of Europe, they'd won. We were never going to allow that though.

 

[Lightning Guy]

But considering the spot Germany was in that was probably the best option they had avaiable. German propoganda was nothing short of marvelous and Goebels did a fantastic job of keeping the average German "fat, dumb, and happy" about the war. The same thing happened with the Japanese who thought they were winning the war until the B-29s started laying waste to their cities.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but remeber in the BoBwe exagerated numbers hugely to boost moral...........