SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Ditto.
Did Northrop and Vought Help Design the Zero
- Thread starter MIflyer
- Start date
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
The issue with China is not ethnic but systemic.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Some Chinese goods are great. Some are junk. I avoid where possible buying MiC stuff because I want to minimize the support I give to an autocracy that practices imprisonment for thoughtcrime and cultural genocide.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
My high School sweetheart was half Japanese and part Hawaiian/Anglo.
I have no issues with the people of any nation/continent.
But the point being, the manufactured consumer goods being streamed from China are not of the highest quality - this literally boils down to "you get what you pay for".
Thumpalumpacus
Major
I have a 2015 MiC Ibanez AS 93, the quality of which so far surpassed my MiA 2009 Gibson SG that I first relegated the latter to backup before selling it in 2016. The list price on the Ibby was 50% of the Gibby.
25 years ago, sure, Chinese goods deserved the crap reputation across the board. That is not nearly the case nowadays.
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
... aaaaand any excuse to post some guitar porn. SG on the left, Ibanez on the right:
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Admiral Beez
Major
I do wonder what the internals and systems of a PLAN carrier or other warship looks like. Video footage is seemingly unavailable.
Admiral Beez
Major
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
They did.
Regardless of type, there was a drag penalty.
The added weight plus drag also changed the aircraft's roll rate performance, too.
What you're seeing there is a buyer who 'negotiates' a lower price. Chinese manufacturers simply drop the quality to match the price the buyer is willing to pay.
I know a buyer who offered more than they initially quoted - everything extra he got was an improvement in quality. He never had any returns.
Escuadrilla Azul
Tech Sergeant
- 1,864
- Feb 27, 2020
I bought a Realme X2 mobile in October 2019. 12 GB RAM + 256 GB storage space (which is very competitive nowadays), fast charge and top processor (in its day) and till this day zero problems with it. All for some 450 euros (a quarter to a third less than a comparable mobile from other manufacter).
So no like that. Of course there is crap to be found in chinese consumer goods but not everything is that. They are very capable of doing very good things with a good price.
BarnOwlLover
Staff Sergeant
Of course, that does apply, irrespective of country...
But on topic, the "fact" that the Zero and other Japanese aircraft "had" to have relied on foreign tech is one of those myths that won't die, like P-51 Mustang designer Ed Schmued being German and worked in the German aero industry (he was Austrian, actually, and was a US citizen years before German rearmament), that the P-51H was "weaker" structurally than earlier versions (not true, except maybe for landing gear), and that the P-40 was total junk (restricted in terms of age of design and high altitude engine performance, but was actually one of the most maneuverable fighters of World War II, just later on didn't have the speed and climb for the most part to go with it).
Yes, Japan did benefit on western technology as far as engine development (even later engines were built using lessons learned from such licensed production), but one, Japan wasn't alone in that, and two, their actual airframes were original designs suited to their requirements of the time. These guys (the designers and engineers) weren't dummies, and only when they ran into engine tech limitations did Japan fall behind markedly. Of course, Germany ended up having the same problems, for many of the same reasons.
But on topic, the "fact" that the Zero and other Japanese aircraft "had" to have relied on foreign tech is one of those myths that won't die, like P-51 Mustang designer Ed Schmued being German and worked in the German aero industry (he was Austrian, actually, and was a US citizen years before German rearmament), that the P-51H was "weaker" structurally than earlier versions (not true, except maybe for landing gear), and that the P-40 was total junk (restricted in terms of age of design and high altitude engine performance, but was actually one of the most maneuverable fighters of World War II, just later on didn't have the speed and climb for the most part to go with it).
Yes, Japan did benefit on western technology as far as engine development (even later engines were built using lessons learned from such licensed production), but one, Japan wasn't alone in that, and two, their actual airframes were original designs suited to their requirements of the time. These guys (the designers and engineers) weren't dummies, and only when they ran into engine tech limitations did Japan fall behind markedly. Of course, Germany ended up having the same problems, for many of the same reasons.
- Thread starter
- #114
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
The Zero designer, Jiro Hiroshi, admitted that he copied the Zero MLG from the Vought V-143.
Shortround6
Major General
Admitted to who?
Martin Caidin?
Aside from being low wing monoplanes with radial engines and inward retracting landing gear it is hard the see where the 'copying' was done.
Zero was about 1 meter longer and had about 1.8 meters more wing span and about 29% more wing area.
Heroshi may have gotten a few ideas/details from the V-143 but something seems to missing from the translation?
special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,731
- May 13, 2018
Don't forget Northrop designs became Douglas. Compare the Northrop/Vought front views with the SBD. Then look at the Fw 190 wide track along with the A6M. Good designers achieve similar results.
don4331
Senior Airman
Shortround6
Major General
Sorry guys, Brain fart. I seem to have skipped over MLG.
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
In his autobiography Laurence Wackett also claimed the A6M was a copy of the V-143 and said the Japanese were incapable of designing anything.
Funny thing is Essington Lewis's papers in the Aus Archives used to include a pair of papers that came from the mission that Lewis funded and Wackett and RAAF officers carried out. The papers were sent to the RAAF to be declassified and were "lost". I still have my correspondence with the NAA on this subject but it is in one of probably 50 archive boxes I have not opened in years but will be posted here as soon as I find it (hopefully very soon for other reasons).
I cannot remember the exact titles but they were approximately
Funny thing is Essington Lewis's papers in the Aus Archives used to include a pair of papers that came from the mission that Lewis funded and Wackett and RAAF officers carried out. The papers were sent to the RAAF to be declassified and were "lost". I still have my correspondence with the NAA on this subject but it is in one of probably 50 archive boxes I have not opened in years but will be posted here as soon as I find it (hopefully very soon for other reasons).
I cannot remember the exact titles but they were approximately
- Japanese aircraft for consideration for Australia
- Negotiations with Sumitomo Metals for the licenced production of Japanese alloys in Australia.
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I think it was epic, when later in life, Horikoshi was asked if he copied American designs, replied that he copied the design of the Junkers J.1 
