Diving - which fighters used it best, and how?

[Shortround6]

Well, your eminent BoB historian had better get his facts straight, that or cut out the bias.

"The third crucial advantage was its fire-power – 55 seconds' worth of ammunition compared with 14.7, and 20mm high explosive cannon shells as well as machine-guns, cannons that even without their explosive charge packed a punch 200% heavier than a .303 bullet."
A Spitfire only got 14.7 seconds worth of firing time if the guns were firing faster than 1200rpm. They were generally rated at 1100-1200rpm. At even 1160rpm that is 15.8 seconds. Granted this is a minor quibble but the 109s oh so superior fire power of 55 seconds is for TWO guns, not eight. The cannons ran out of ammo after 7-8 seconds. No mention of that is there?
To be fair the 20mm shells, even without explosive are way more powerful than 200% but the Germans have a slight problem at any but the closest of ranges. The 20mm and the 7.9mm mgs have different times of flight. At sea level the 20mm shells take 1/10 of second longer to get to 300 meters. The difference is less at higher altitudes but a 300mph aircraft can cover 44ft in a 1/10th of second. This makes deflection shooting a bit difficult.

I would also seriously question the claim that the 109 climbed faster. They did climb differently. The 109 climbed at a steeper angle which to pilots in combat appears to be climbing better. The Spitfire covered more horizontal ground while gaining about the same or slightly more altitude per unit of time.
One also has to be very careful when comparing printed tests as you will very seldom find a test for a Spitfire (or any British plane) climbing at combat power. For example this chart
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/n3171climb-c.jpg

was done at 2600rpm and 6 1/4 lbs boost which is why the boost falls off at around 11,000ft. This was pre BoB and by the time of the BoB not only was the boost limit changed to the well known 12lbs but the 30 minute climb rating was changed from 6 1/4 lbs at 2600rpm to 6 1/4 lbs at 2850rpm. Combat climb at 3000rpm would have been? even without the 12lbs of boost.

He also managed to leave out that the Spitfire was faster in level flight.

 

[duplex]

Well, your eminent BoB historian had better get his facts straight, that or cut out the bias.

I am little bit frustrated mate , why should a popular British historian present himself as someone who is biased against Spitfire ?

 

[Shortround6]

I have no idea but please see WWII Aircraft Performance

For British tests done at the time and pay attention to the conditions or engine limits (rpm and boost) used during the tests. Please note that the supercharger is geared directly to the crankshaft so the supercharger on a Merlin III will turn 848.8 rpm less for every 100 rpm of the engine which is why the boost tapers off so much while climbing vs the boost available at 3000 rpm in level flight ( you also have the ram effect in the inlet)

See WORLD WAR 2 FIGHTER GUN EFFECTIVENESS for some of the information on the guns, a lot of the rest can be found on internet fairly easy and just divide rates of fire and ammo capacity with a calculator.

Th bf109 could enter a dive quicker (perhaps much quicker) but that doesn't mean it was actually faster or that it was as controllable in a dive. That means aileron response and/or elevator response.

I have no idea of his of motive but the facts are there for anybody to check,

 

[duplex]

I have no idea but please see WWII Aircraft Performance

For British tests done at the time and pay attention to the conditions or engine limits (rpm and boost) used during the tests. Please note that the supercharger is geared directly to the crankshaft so the supercharger on a Merlin III will turn 848.8 rpm less for every 100 rpm of the engine which is why the boost tapers off so much while climbing vs the boost available at 3000 rpm in level flight ( you also have the ram effect in the inlet)

See WORLD WAR 2 FIGHTER GUN EFFECTIVENESS for some of the information on the guns, a lot of the rest can be found on internet fairly easy and just divide rates of fire and ammo capacity with a calculator.

Th bf109 could enter a dive quicker (perhaps much quicker) but that doesn't mean it was actually faster or that it was as controllable in a dive. That means aileron response and/or elevator response.

I have no idea of his of motive but the facts are there for anybody to check,

Thanks mate...

 

[Shortround6]

For a detailed but long comparison see; Spitfire Mk I versus Me 109 E

Diving speeds given here from pilots manuals are 450mph for the Spitfire and 466 for the 109. 16mph doesn't seem to be enough to get excited about compared to how fast the planes accelerated in the dive or the 109s ability to "bunt" into a dive.

 

[Ascent]

The fact that the Germans could get enough of a lead to escape from the Spitfires and Hurricanes by "bunting" into the dive while they had to roll before they could follow also answers a question earlier in the thread about the quickest way into the dive.

 

[stona]

The fact that the Germans could get enough of a lead to escape from the Spitfires and Hurricanes by "bunting" into the dive while they had to roll before they could follow also answers a question earlier in the thread about the quickest way into the dive.

Yes. But other factors come into play in combat. Bf 109 pilots were wary of going too fast in a dive for fear of being unable to recover. Bader once said that usually, having dived away, a Bf 109 would be "going like a lamplighter" and he would not be able to close the range. He also noticed the reluctance of Bf 109 pilots to go too fast or pull out low, which he could use to his advantage. Word went around the Jagdwaffe, following the introduction of the 'Friedrich' that it could fail catastrophically following a Spitfire in a dive, or pulling out hard. In Bader's words, the German pilots were "a bit porky on the joystick" when pulling out of a fast dive.
Rolf Pingel kindly delivered an almost intact Bf 109 F to the British and in his subsequent interrogation confirmed what Bader had noticed.
This is from the original report:

It DOES NOT matter whether the 'Friedrich' really did have such a weakness or not. The German pilots believed that it did, and flew accordingly.

Nothing is black and white in air combat. Different aircraft may have marginal advantages in certain areas over others, but the most important factor is usually the man at the controls.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Ascent]

My point was really about that initial transition to the dive where the 109 pilots got that little bit of wriggle room. Whether they managed to turn that into escape is another matter but it gave them that chance.

 

[Greyman]

One thing that I don't quite understand re: early Spit/109 is that the propeller pitch issue is almost never mentioned (at least compared to the negative G issue).

If you gave me a choice between two identical fighter planes but:

- one had a constant speed propeller and engine cut in negative G
- one had a controllable pitch propeller and engine worked in negative G​

You'd better believe I'd take the fully automatic pitch every time.

As stona said '... the most important factor is usually the man at the controls'. I'm sure there are plenty of occasions where a 109E was outclimbed, outfought or outdived by Hurricanes (let alone Spitfires) due to the pilot not manipulating his propeller properly in a life-and-death struggle.

 

[stona]

I'm sure there are plenty of occasions where a 109E was outclimbed, outfought or outdived by Hurricanes (let alone Spitfires) due to the pilot not manipulating his propeller properly in a life-and-death struggle.

Ulrich Steinhilper touched on this in his autobiography, both the pitch control and the inexperienced replacement pilots arriving at his Gruppe in the second half of September 1940.

"Typical of these youngsters was a Gefreiter who arrived in late September. His flying time was minimal - he had only fired a few shots at a ground target, had never flown on oxygen and still had no idea how to use his radio. We tried to increase their experience before they actually came along on combat missions by taking them on patrols between missions. Then we would talk on the radio, climb to altitudes in excess of 8,000 metres and make them use oxygen. Of special importance was teaching them how to change the pitch of their propeller to get maximum pull from the engine at high altitude... It was vital they mastered this technique if they were to keep up in a battle-climb or at high altitude. After about ten hours tuition we would take them out over the Channel to shoot at shadows on the water or cross to Dungeness and shoot at a black medieval tower that stood there [the old Dungeness Lighthouse]. Finally, when we could not excuse them combat duty any longer, we would take them along with us. This became the case with the Gefreiter and so I took him as my 'Rottenhund'. We began our climb almost immediately after take off and he was constantly using the radio to ask us to slow down so that he could keep up. It was obvious that he wasn't manipulating the pitch control with the skill of the more seasoned pilots to produce the same power as our machines. We tried to tell him what to do over the radio but to no avail. Eventually, about half way across the Channel and at 4,000 metres Kuhle told him to leave the formation and return to base. He broke away but in his confusion he turned not for home but towards Dover. Kuhle realised what was happening and ordered me to give chase and take him home. I rolled out and soon overhauled him, just before we reached the balloon barrage at Dover. I had tried to raise him on the radio but he was in such a state of anxiety that he wouldn't or couldn't respond. Positioning myself in front of him I rocked my wings, using the signal for him to follow me. He dutifully hung on to my tail and we were soon back at Coquelles. This was one of only two missions I missed during the whole of our time in the Battle of Britain."

So, yes, the manual pitch control could be an issue. It also illustrates that the Germans were suffering the same problem as Fighter Command, though a distinction lost on Sholto-Douglas. There is a difference between a pilot, fresh faced and newly trained, and a combat ready pilot.

Some Bf 109 Es, depending on which propeller system was fitted, did have automatic pitch control. It became standard on the F series, though it could still be overridden by a manual control from the pilot.

Cheers

Steve

 

[GregP]

To explain why a Bf 109 could enter a dive quicker than a Spitfire of BOB vintage, you have only to note the Bf 109 was fuel injected and the Spitfire was carbureted. If the aircraft were pushed over into a dive (called a "bunt" at the time), the carb would cough when under negative g and the Bf 109 would not, so it appeared to accelerate away. In fact, the Merlin soon revived when in the dive and The Bf 109 rapidly got to a speed where the controls were almost frozen. The main operational solution was to half-roll and THEN dive.

The Bf 109 was medium-speed dogfighter and was not very well-mannered above 400 mph, which was easy to reach in a full-power dive. And that's not a knock on the Bf 109 (surely a great plane). Rather it is a statement of the well know high-speed characteristics of the type. As I've said in here before, the very late-model Bf 109s, if they were going 450 mph, were running TO a fight or FROM a fight, but they weren't fighting at that speed; they were flying in a straight line and covering some serious ground. The best dogfight speeds for the Bf 109 series ranged from 180 mph to something just under 300 mph. They weren't bad at all from 280 to 320 or so mph, but they got pretty stiff above 350 mph and were almost unmanerverable above 400 mph, though they COULD get to that speed.

The inventive Tilly Shilling invented a small orifice (another name for a restrictor) that could be placed inside the carb to mitigate if not eliminate the negative g stuttering of the Merlin. It was called "Miss Shilling's orifice" or "Tilly's orifice" by the crews at the time. By 1943 the Merlin had a Bendix-Stromberg pressure carburetor that injected fuel at 5 psi. Later, the 100-series Merlin got an S.U. injection carburetor that injected fuel into the supercharger using a fuel pump driven as a function of crankshaft speed and engine pressures, effectively meaning it had fuel injection.

 

[stona]

She must have been some woman, Beatrice Shilling. To have the career in engineering which she enjoyed at that time cannot have been easy for a woman.
There is a branch of the Women's Institute (WI) in Farnborough which still calls itself 'Tilly's Widgets'. I'm sure they are not mechanical engineers, but it is a nice tip of the hat to a pioneering lady. A widget, in this old fashioned context, has nothing to do with computing, being rather any little device whose name you don't know or have forgotten, rather like the 'RAE restrictor'.
Cheers
Steve

 

[wuzak]

About comparing the BoB era Spitfire and Bf 109 in a dive:

 

[Peter Gunn]

To explain why a Bf 109 could enter a dive quicker than a Spitfire of BOB vintage, you have only to note the Bf 109 was fuel injected and the Spitfire was carbureted. If the aircraft were pushed over into a dive (called a "bunt" at the time), the carb would cough when under negative g and the Bf 109 would not, so it appeared to accelerate away. In fact, the Merlin soon revived when in the dive and The Bf 109 rapidly got to a speed where the controls were almost frozen. The main operational solution was to half-roll and THEN dive.

The Bf 109 was medium-speed dogfighter and was not very well-mannered above 400 mph, which was easy to reach in a full-power dive. And that's not a knock on the Bf 109 (surely a great plane). Rather it is a statement of the well know high-speed characteristics of the type. As I've said in here before, the very late-model Bf 109s, if they were going 450 mph, were running TO a fight or FROM a fight, but they weren't fighting at that speed; they were flying in a straight line and covering some serious ground. The best dogfight speeds for the Bf 109 series ranged from 180 mph to something just under 300 mph. They weren't bad at all from 280 to 320 or so mph, but they got pretty stiff above 350 mph and were almost unmanerverable above 400 mph, though they COULD get to that speed.

The inventive Tilly Shilling invented a small orifice (another name for a restrictor) that could be placed inside the carb to mitigate if not eliminate the negative g stuttering of the Merlin. It was called "Miss Shilling's orifice" or "Tilly's orifice" by the crews at the time. By 1943 the Merlin had a Bendix-Stromberg pressure carburetor that injected fuel at 5 psi. Later, the 100-series Merlin got an S.U. injection carburetor that injected fuel into the supercharger using a fuel pump driven as a function of crankshaft speed and engine pressures, effectively meaning it had fuel injection.

I remember reading about the Spitfires Merlin stuttering if you didn't half roll to keep g's on the fuel system years ago and more than once, good stuff Greg. So what kept the Mustang's Merlin from the same issue, "Miss Shilling's Orifice" or did it utilize a pressure system?

 

[Shortround6]

I believe the Merlins went through three stages, the original carburetors. The carburetors with "Miss Shilling's Orifice" and by 1943/44 even the British Merlins were getting a pressure carburetor. The American built Merlins ALWAYS used Bendix pressure carburetors.

Wiki claims that by March of 1941 the device had been fitted throughout fighter command, While the device prevented the momentary fuel starvation of negative G it still didn't provide for prolonged inverted flight.

It would seem that this negative G problem lasted less than a year.

Photo of Miss Shilling off duty.
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

She had lapped the Brooklands race track at 106mph.

 

[stona]

[QUOTE="Shortround6, post: 1338044, member: 28476"


Photo of Miss Shilling off duty.
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mRH8QVfwSpnoOpuJnIarLzJc0UqzL6EOcxwjm9IpUnFrXNBILQ6RcAwA8SNCbO829UGzxnDIGSnQMTJefqMcgPpHRJw3CQ5mR7Cx+z4OU9HcvNaXs1je+w7HO+oeF3mN/UQfVWuUckGAPA3hr3OZAYQCNSZ0I5pD+DvAY5rM3eSABr4bGeS6JFoSO7ERt/VBzzGcMpsbDnZqsizbtZzl25TWG4fTfLc+V5+mbNP7pOxXQXYFh+yE2eG0+Q9kHPhwaoS5opkGm3M8ExA5zv6J7hvDC8v7sSWtLj/COXUroVGgGiNREX5cvJJ4fgmUiS1oE6xvCDD0eD94M9SKdMD6nDXowblRm4WmakTlZeHECQNpW8xXC2VDLwTyvoOg2UKrwGl902QZv/AJUf/JS/nH9EFc/9P0/3vhBBcsCdATbAnWtQKDUYCNrFWP4oBWewjwtgTvcAk9QCY9JQWRCEJwNGoMhVnaLijMHQfXqGzRYDVzj9LR1JQVPbLiwoBgbULazpDWtjO9tnOa3k45YBMCSOYVPwWviaw7x2SlTMllNl3GSSXVKh3OvhAvuVlm1ahc7FVr4ipoBfIPs0mTpG/WV0DBUw1rQ0CAABGgEbdEF5R4TharYLQXauOjpi8rP8a7O02HwCCPE3k4f11HotTw/C04a7V0XvN45Kr4rWz1DANvCJ6az6koMZQoNAiDAkl9hM6nyUCsw1ZNNz2tmQQcjTG4b9rzKquF8RqVKlWll7xvePytLsgyB7oEwZGnoFon1paKcBg3Gth+9pAQUtU9xSfiCTAkM/ed+QVh2BwdDFE1a7zkYQchmC8CSTGwuqLtFiTVpuDQcjR4bbSJcRt+QHmqHC46tTblp1HDk1jjJMcm+vsUHpStimClNEZhEAM9vhFWxbszCIy3zA6gxaPn4XI+FcQxooZy1zW5GOYSSM+fQmCNrXvZaCgcW+O7e2oIDi4VKoblJAaRNyT4rR9nW8ING3tDTp1q7ajspziLE/YbyUHj3GKVdjaba7GgkB8yCGkiSLXMSPVZXtBxLGYUB1QDK55aw5yS6PtEXi0GNphQOEdsXOrNZVLWNP1VHFoYBE3dkMAiNRvsg2/F+P4JgBbUktjK1pJ00Eei5T2grueQHWL3ucRym59YELccd4biaNN1TvcPOzWMGc5jtFPYSZ6LI4TADEYqjTbU7wOLGudlLQC4zUaJ1hoN95QI4e9tGmXVQ/N3rSwNLbtLGmL3k+G0XBV3guIUqdMh4NMMtFQv8ADLi6xFiTex5Hkuk8E4M3DtcLOc57nl0XgnwNBMmGtDW67dVne0VRuExXfUsrnPae8p7HfxWIGazhvIP3kD//AA5rsfSqln2qmeP3SA0QNB9J0Wqq4um36qjB5uAXKMXxSpUfUeSA5wDopy0OaAAWkTJsAYP3SpIdUaBmY2n/APY+nSP8r3B3wg6UOJUTpWp/zBSGOBEggjoZXLe+ds+iegrUvzcE+zFVKJBcH0ydDdoPkRZ3ug6blRQsrwztURAqjMPvCzh5jdamlVa9oc0gtOhCA4SgEQCUAgOE1UCfCbqhBDhBLRICanWpoBOtagUXQsfTqEuL3T4zmg6XvA566LTcUqZaVQjXKduYj81k31TGVtGs4TMCm8i5k3I5oLfA8TNLW9Pfmy+o/d6bfjU9veGMrNZiHVnubTINOk3J3ZJ+06xJMbz03Kj0MPiJkYasNYu1uvm7ToZHRRqLaVWs2gM+Hqy5xJA1AbLYvExe2jbAIMni81ao2jTu+o7I3yP1n1mPLNzXYeCYJrGhlS4yhocTo5oDZnmevW2yzWE4DiKeIa+pUa+iAfExoNQG8EFtwtAG52uyVibXBywY2IJkHzQWlHAim7MXkATqABBtrN1g+3PaZtLvG0Tmqv8AC0CSWkiAXAb8m6klQeL8RY/wv73u2izw/IMtgLaOdbQSfdYl3FGhx7luQkuAebvIOzbDIIIki99UE7s5witTZUqGm55ZBytMOYTr3lTRgIg5LusDAWmZSc6mTn1b9oktHOzpJHqUXCOH1H4ejWqEHDZg5tEOdkBNszyHBznSJAMi/qpHaDFimzLFtTtYX0QVWC4V+11v2ZtSBkc5zo1i0CNr6JXZrhjMJj61Os5kCk5rS6GgmQRE7kT7lL7Ftc3FUqrtKgeBrpp+IV920wGWtTxbYkeF1rXkSfQoM2eIup03QZgucwEyCGtBiPu/Vbr5JWApV6LsPWzkMqPbSFIVKoyFzWunu82XR4No8rpGE4Xnx1Og9zhSqTI3NjMHSSAL9VZ9seB1GTlq1Kjm5Kocckx/ducQ0DxNIpX0gTzQVfbZ73YprC/w0wXSXOd9VgIcTyOnILPYYUyRT7whoIuepAJJ32Vn2xOXGVgCbhm5P2JPySrT/hZwDvqxxNRvgp2bIs6ofxDRfzIQaTs9wTBlraT6DQ8iz2ucG1DEEwCA19pjT8FX9h+FUzjaj6QPdUcxZvd5LW338IcfVa/j+BEZhYusYt4hdrhG9jfoFD/4f8O7rDFzvqe9x/wt8DfhpPqgn9ouK9xThv8AeOs3pzcfL8VgqlM1SQHQJBfUMk5ibQPtPJ0ap/aDFurVC5t5ORg6TDR6m/qrns7w5gEuyuY3M0AgjM62esJ+qTLRyACDOYLg7jVdh3juahGdgLWzUdchrnyYGjsrSAcrwdJWi7LYejUoBndMbUaXsfLRmmDBcdSdjO7SrDtHwx1VgfT/AL6l46ZGrgLwOZ09QNnKj4TxRoxNOsXNHfty1ALAVWgDNGwJMj+MlBrK9FtgWgw8kCBEua78S4qvrdnKRtS/stS7LGR5OzqR8Dh6ToAQrDEOOcAa29LwT7Oj16J+s4NAboD6mBrbU8vVBguIcJdTcBlDXGS0AnK8DU05uHblhnWxKc4Fxg0HXksP1D/9Dqtdj203MIrEMzQBJGcEGW5eTgb2m6xvFcMWuzQZkh3hLfFEh2U3AcLxzzIOgU3ggEGQbg7EHdOALL9isfma6iTdnib/AAk3HofxWqYEAARVAlkJqobII0IIIIEApwPVeMXyaU8yqTt7oJTUpRw93T5SgeoQPrLduG5BQrADwVb7SHNIMxfQLS5uqg8cwXf0H07yRI/iFx+HygocJxoA2dCsmYilUu9sjmLEeoWDqUXNu2fLqNR7T7RupeCFVzO9ptcQJBLbkRc5mi8X10QXfE+ylGuJY7xC4DgCfIONwPIhcmfg3mrAY55eZa1rSTe8NiTA/wBTOq6GzjRA8QvzbY+o0PwqLCVCMcwU6rmCo85XwRlLwbEA2GaBY6FBZ8BFU0m0XF7GUcpaMjqbnG8mqKjAXOGkgaKv7UVXafVpyna1xGq1/Fq9UlorCCwRINnX187dPJYPjVfvH7ADUwRafx39/UK7B46v34bnLG0hAdLgBYgBoJvPSLclcYrjGIqMLKlZuV2kF5J6kE2+VnYMmAHkjU6g7ESi780nsxAAlpEA7gZi6RyvCDoGEc6i1td721abQ2XAEOYWlpDhmJ3bGu53Ul/aoV6pqwWsLTQaweIuLg+XAxoCW+3RSMFiadSkHi9KoDYxtZzXfvAiD5KswPD6jMVThuZjXZy4/c8UAAWzAls84J1KCTxivTqVn02jxQZcdPpc0Wgn7V1ouxGOb3baO93NOzpJMAbED81iMe9xx9xkzjKJ62NvePIKTj2PplrKYaWS1paQfpkyZB2MekckG/49iofRpjcucR0DSBPu7+VM8OrxgXuG3egfzuA/FY/s7iXPqVHOcCyk3MHAEDxtaA2+wOcek7rX0aJbw+DqWF5/xOz/AJoMxh2/2k/cY53rGVvrmeFvMFQDWNptcSGtAAcBMAQJEA+6w2Eb43Xj+z21GV9N5jrDSt2XEiTEc3CD7C8+gQN4jCmDlOXkWyMpjUNMgjpHVYnjHDhhzALntqAkguBqNqNJOaYv9TvRzui25a87mPOfgwfcnyWP7W4dx8bG5WCWzf6onMDy/oge4dx82pvEZXMDqsF05j4bbTB56eq02HLHEnPI01iSPkwZ1n4XLmjNVaadNtMQAWsLnEZRd7pE3F9103C0XACnUgFoABGrhtJECbXGkgoJwIH0gddh6lUfaDD5gTJMtO0NGTxiDFzGfc6q4GGA2B89fQjT2UHi58O+j9TIgU33nzj3QZPgFXu8XT5OJYfJwt8wuitXNsOP+5ox/wCWn/7LpTUBpqonC5NPKCOgilEggnBdR7J2nhOvspOVG0IEspQnAlBqEICzI5RwgQgynaLhWVxqNb4HfUB9k8+gP4qrwLnUXZ2OjSfuuAIMOA+knnprdu+7qUwRG362VBjOCuaZox/CTEHod/1dAziauHrtZ31LZoztE7gGHsuQBKzWNwlHD1A+m7Nr4KgvuJbHiJsCLfa1srXEcOqfbwgceYyn8CSqfGYd7bMw1RvlTdHvEILB+NNZuaHggR4nT1s4336rGcQwFOpmLqrQ+4DZEgQNQdQfyK2bMDlp5JJtfqdykcIo0n0Ax9Jj8r6gOZrXGS8u3nZwQYijwnI0DI9wgEvDSQTuB0Hz00Uas4BoZFg8eGPqhwIJHpHqug1OztEmWNfSPOkXN/y6fCgu4LVBnvWvA0zsv0lw3QU3Z/G/s9Z1HMX0DGZxEZanhGcN1yklrfVu61mIrimM7osfAZgXB3OrRqejfJVdDhDmzmoBwd9QbWewPvmuCI1E+iar8GpGM2ErMyzAa9rxeLiGzsgr+N44VsZmpEFrcozC4kDbny9FZccqVHinTpXq1BBygzByzqTluBfzQbh8JSuaVYEcw8flCTX7RsbLaNPuwRd32iBsTqgvuDcLa1rcKCCJDq7hpAH0A9dPcrZVqjXNLIsQR6EQs52f8NCnI8ThmdzJde/WIHorVtWUGYp+B4LtGkh38Jlr/glanAYl8EPuWktkXnkcxgQRBgc1UcVw0Oz7O18/9UvhuJsGmZFheMw2aeo25i2wkLqviHGw9Y1vYXOhJt7pnFYfwNz3hwMc9Z95OkaoqVY/mfPT4/oir1i6JO9vI2J9jHr1QNM4c1uc5GZXwCA0eG+gtcE/6agKazCS1rmmDAOtjpI5+x2BTXfEsiNgPyQoVi2R1MjnJmR1uEEqlIgEk8iDc9CHaH1VdxVzfERckZJIAOuZ+gEiABf74Us1swN/CR4jpG02uD8zG6zvG+IC5JgCYnWNST1JufQbIIvAqfeY2nyYHVD7ZW/JHsuiNWS7IYTu2OqvEPqkGNwwfQPkn1WopVQUDpTFVOkpiogYhBKQQLcktThCQECwEYaiBSgUAhCEcowUCMqSWJ5HCBju0ipQkEc/zUmOiOOiDF4rBdz4HOBmS0xFuXmoXBqQw7nmrBZUM/wunUdCDfyC3OMwLKoh7Z5bEeqqX9lKLjc1IG0tj/1QJDQfoa8eSSOHPJmPdX1DDhogT7peVBR1eCvIHj9NP91HfwV40IWkj9WQynl+CDLnhlQbD3Qbw1+7fhactPJHl6IM63BuGxT7MG5XZYiA8/ZBU/sUgh1wfP8AoqLH4J1EyZLDvHweR6rZAdPj/VFUpBwIIt109kGVocQkQ6T1H1eoNnD56qaKjXXzDbXw6GftW+U1iuzRmaT8vQgx6HZRXcKxbNBTd5PM/wCZoQWoi92C9vG3z585RVarBvmMzaQLCPqPltKpjQxg/wDjk+Tqf5uTf7DjX60izq5zT7Bpugl8S4qGtkkADbYf1N9T6Qq/hvDXYh4q1RFMXa06vOxI2b038tbLAdn8pz1KZquH3iMoPRgt7yrkNd/4/lAumOqdDTzSWA/dATrWO6IDDim6zyE4KZ5pD2II/fdESV3SCCU4pKS4IvUoFpxqRTZ1KX3aAFKCIUvP3QFLqfdA4EcJAHUo7oFEdUPVFB5/giynmUCwjASQOv4Ig3qUDkIAJEH7xQ9UCyEMvVNd31KXB5n4QGGo8qTHUogzqUCyERb1SS3qURHVAshIIQg80ksP3kCiERSTSP3iidTP3j8IDKW1MGmeZSgDzQPFNOCGT94oZD94/CAEnojzJstPP4Rlh5/CBeZIekwefwkvB5/CBEDqgk35oIFNclFBBA/KJ5QQQGHIOeUSCA86GdEggPMiLtEEECsyPMgggGZJBQQQHmQzlEggGco85QQQDOUWcokEAzIF5QQQHnKNryiQQGXJIdZBBAkOQzIIIAXIsyCCAZkmoUEEEaUEEEH/2Q==

She had lapped the Brooklands race track at 106mph.[/QUOTE]

On a Norton...good for her!

Cheers

Steve

 

[Old Wizard]