GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The 801 powered G-2 (which was faster than the Jumo powered varients) was still over 100 mph slower thn the Do335...
Do 335
- Thread starter bob44
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Shortround6
Major General
No, with Jumo 222 it would have been the grandmother of all hanger queens or at best, a useful decoy to distract allied attacks from planes that actually worked.
davebender
1st Lieutenant
Same issue. Heavy bomber vs light bomber.
One could argue Do-335 was the ultimate schnellbomber as it could outrun everything except jets while carrying a 1,000kg bomb load.
One could argue Do-335 was the ultimate schnellbomber as it could outrun everything except jets while carrying a 1,000kg bomb load.
Amazingly I actually agree with some of your post
However, running hot had nothing to do with the death of Group Captain Alan Hards who was Commanding Officer, Experimental Flying at Farnborough. The rear engine was indeed prone to over heating, but the fire that ultimately killed Hards (18/1/46) was caused by a faulty spark plug blowing out. This was a problem known to have plagued Luftwaffe pilots too.Brown had last flown 240112/AM223 three days earlier.
Cheers
Steve
What about the P47M?
davebender
1st Lieutenant
Not a factor as P-47M was rejected by U.S. Army Air Corps after procuring only 130 aircraft. If Do-335 encounters a P-47 during summer 1945 it would probably be P-47N.
It wasn't rejected by the USAAF but was a short production run.
The P-47M was a special high-speed version of the Thunderbolt specifically evolved to counter the Fieseler Fi 103 (V-1) buzz bomb and the new jet- and rocket-powered fighters that were entering service with the Luftwaffe.
I'll return to this. German estimates put the Ta-154A-1 and Do-335 night fighters at around 680 and 690 km/h respectively. The quirk is that such Ta-154 need to be equipped with Jumo 213E, ie. a two-stage engines, vs. the Do-335A-6 that was to be outfitted with DB-603A or 603E, ie. with single stage engines. A table can be seen here:
Focke-Wulf Ta 154 ? Wikipedia
So we're again at 1945 engines vs. 1943 engines, and the 'classic' has a hard time to beat the push-puller even with that.
As a day fighter, both can get rid of the antlers, flame suppressors and like. The Do-335 also deletes the protruding second cockpit, lowering the drag further; the Ta-154 cannot gain anything with that, having second cockpit 'laying' flush with 1st.
davebender
1st Lieutenant
If you want a late war German night fighter IMO it makes more sense to use a pair of 2,000hp DB605D engines. Then the entire aircraft can be smaller and lighter in weight. In addition to improved maneuverability such an aircraft should be considerably less expensive to manufacture.
Larger Jumo 213 or DB603 engines make sense for a bomber which is what historical Do-335 was.
Larger Jumo 213 or DB603 engines make sense for a bomber which is what historical Do-335 was.
Problem is that, until DB-605D is available in some numbers, the German factories, refineries, marshaling yards etc are in shambles, and Germany has one enemy at the Rhine, another on the Oder. Read - too late no matter what they do. Not even the jets can help them, not only because there is no well trained and/or experienced pilots to fly them.
wuzak
Captain
It was designed as a heavy fighter and a bomber.
wuzak
Captain
Dive bombers had a problem when they couldn't operate where they didn't enjoy local air superiority. Or where there were effective anti-aircraft defences.
Pretty much. The earliest recognisable design drawing, marked Do 335, so post the initial RLM order for ten prototypes of January 1943, is for an interceptor fighter, fast bomber, reconnaissance aircraft.
Throughout the war the RLM kept moving the goal posts on the aircraft designers, which definitely didn't help get promising designs into production
Cheers
Steve
davebender
1st Lieutenant
Jumo 213 and DB603 engines were never available in adequate numbers. So IMO that argument doesn't have much weight.
By fall 1943 the DB605A engine was producing 1,475 reliable hp and plenty were available. Seems to me a smaller and lighter tandem engine fighter aircraft out to have decent performance with "only" 2,950 total hp. More powerful DB605ASM and DB605D engines would be an upgrade when they become available.
By fall 1943 the DB605A engine was producing 1,475 reliable hp and plenty were available. Seems to me a smaller and lighter tandem engine fighter aircraft out to have decent performance with "only" 2,950 total hp. More powerful DB605ASM and DB605D engines would be an upgrade when they become available.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
And yet, with all their technical know-how and various types (and mutitudes of varients of those types) it ended up being the Do335 that emerged as the fastest twin of the war.
You can't simply take a small airframe and cram the biggest possible engines in it and have an instant winner, it's just not that easy. Otherwise the skies would have been darkened by clouds of super Fw189s zooming all over the place creating mayhem...
davebender
1st Lieutenant
It worked for Sptifire and Me-109. Those aircraft were so successful that I'd try the same design formula again.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
But now you have an airframe with not only one massive engine, but two.
Engines are heavy, they can be big. They need large amounts of fuel. You need a structure that can support the additional weight and withstand the dynamic forces the engines create.
Engines are heavy, they can be big. They need large amounts of fuel. You need a structure that can support the additional weight and withstand the dynamic forces the engines create.
DB-605D lags almost a year behind the Jumo 213, and that one lags a year behind the DB-603A. The DB-603A can make it's presence felt in ww2, unlike the DB-605D.
That I can agree with. Design a push-pull fighter around the DB-601/605/Jumo-211, with 300-350 sq ft wing, 4-5 20mm cannons and you have a plane to match anything prop-driven in ww2.
I think this is no "what if" thread!
davparlr
Senior Master Sergeant
The Allies already had answers for this aircraft if it had shown up earlier and had become a threat. In the Fall of 1943 the XP-47J with the 2800 hp R2800-57 flew and in 1944, flew 500 mph. But even this plane was cancelled due the impressive performance of the XP-72 with the 3450 hp R-4360. It, in turn, was cancelled on VE day because of the advent of the jet. If the jet had not come along and the Do 335 had become a threat, they would have met over Europe. Even the P-47M/N with more power and speed available above 25k ft.(substantially more above 30k) would certainly be able to harass the Do 335 at the lower altitudes. At even lower altitudes it would have to deal with the very fast Tempest IIs and P-51Hs.
