Do we need bigger amphibian water bombers?

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Shortround6 said:
What I did with that fire was buy time to break out the 5 gal foam can/s and the foam equipment to blanket the fuel spill to greatly reduce the re-ignition danger
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The textbook example and the right solution. I testify as a former seaman and certified firefighter.
Working on tankers, we knew water was used for cooling while foam was used for actual firefighting. Unless your foam lines or generator were down. Then it was up to your creativity and common sense.
 

I've put out POL fires with straight water couple of times in controlled training environments. Not difficult indoors where you can straight-stream the ceiling and steam it down in a small/medium room, but outdoors it's much more about simply protecting exposures with curtains until you can get foam down.
 
Admiral Beez said:
I would not be surprised if a US manufacturer bought a license to build more DeHavilland CL-515s.
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I would - there aren't that many US aircraft manufacturers left, tooling up to build an entire aircraft is a HUGE and expensive proposition and supply chains are still busted thanks to the pandemic and the geopolitical situation between the US and the EU, China and Russia.

Boeing's not going to do it - they've got more than enough on their plate at the moment. Neither is Lockheed Martin or Northrop Grumman - they're too focused on military projets.

That basically leaves the business jet and turboprop/piston manufacturers. Of those, maybe only Gulfstream and Textron (which makes Beechcraft and Cessna) realistically have the size, resources and expertise needed to produce a 15-20 tonne aircraft.

Admiral Beez said:
The production rate of 4-6 aircraft a year (the CL-415 production line peaked at 5 aircraft before Bombardier sold the rights to Viking) will not meet the demand.
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Viking Air is now under the de Havilland Canada umbrella, with design on the updated CL-515 completed and final assembly moving to a new production line.

Deliveries are due to start in early 2028, but there are only 22 orders on the books for the CL-515 at present. Unless more orders materalise soon DHC would have to be brain dead to be aiming for anything other than a max production rate of 4-5 per year.

I think there also some CL-415s remaining on order, but not sure if they are intending to produce them.
 
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I think part of the answer here may lie in the good old USA. CL-x15s are operated in Canada, Greece, Spain, and on and on but not in the US. I'm not sure any entity within the US is willing to pay the bill for dedicated new build firebombers -- no matter how efficient or effective they are. Instead we've always been stuck with inappropriate (though cool) things like this...


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MIflyer said:
Yes! Made out of ICE!!!!!! Like the WW2 carriers that were tried out. Mix wood pulp with water and freeze it! Just mold it into an airframe shape, probably a flying wing, and have airplanes tow it to the target area!
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Hmmm. Thereby adding fuel to the fire as the ice melts and resulting water evaporates.

More seriously, about Pykrete as it was known.

Pykrete - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

"The mixture can be moulded into any shape and frozen, and it will be tough and durable, as long as it is kept at or below freezing temperature. Resistance to gradual creep or sagging is improved by lowering the temperature further, to −15 °C (5 °F)."

And remind me, what season do we get these fires in?
 
Update on this topic:

Bridger Aerospace Group Holdings announced a deal on the 25th of March with Positive Aviation, to act as the exclusive North American launch customer for a water-scooping conversion of the ATR 72-600.

Press release: Bridger Aerospace and Positive Aviation Announce Joint Partnership for the Development of Water Scooping Aircraft

The conversion puts a couple of big floats/scoops on an ATR 72. Capacity of 8,000 liters/2,110 US gal. MTOW of 23,000 kg.

Looks interesting and a little silly at the same time, but if it works it works. Expected to be flying around 2028.

PA looks like its got a bunch of former Airbus engineers behind it - lot of people with 15+ years seniority working on big commercial jets and VIP/corporate aircraft conversions. They're based at Toulouse Blagnac, which is also home to ATR and Airbus production facilities.
 
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