**** DONE: GB-59 1/48 Corsair F4A-1A/Mk.II – WW2 PTO V

[Vic Balshaw]

Get all your ducks inna row First.

Working on it, thinking undercoat needs to be yellow zinc chromate on an aluminum base before much faded and worn camo colours.

Any thought folks.

 

[fubar57]

Might be of some help Vicn near the bottom... Interior Colours of US Aircraft, 1941-45, Part III

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Might be of some help Vicn near the bottom... Interior Colours of US Aircraft, 1941-45, Part III

Many thanks George, great little site.

 

[fubar57]

You're welcome. For some reason I can no longer get to the colour chips to show and when I tried to access it from another site, this pops up

 

[N4521U]

You're welcome. For some reason I can no longer get to the colour chips to show and when I tried to access it from another site, this pops up

View attachment 733555​

Screen shot!

 

[Vic Balshaw]

I've had a bit of a delay getting this fellow underway folks. First up it was a planned trip up north to some lovely warmer weather in Cairnes where good eating and company was the order of the day. Unfortunately on the last day I developed a bit of a cough, and flying home the next day (fully masked I might add) I was glad to get home even though it was well past my usual bed time. For the next couple of day I was out for the count, that was two weeks ago today and now I'm only just coming good. So, onto my Coursair.

I'm looking at cockpit and base colours for this machine and for the cockpit, I'm going to plumb for a deep green as again there was no fixed colour match, some production aircraft having what looked like black (could have been deep) while others were more the lighter and very defined almost bright or should I say strong green. Again, Vaught were not following convention and the colour range could vary from a dark or deep green to a nice light green.

Looking at a base chromate, I have found out the Vaught factory always used a salmon chromate protective undercoat that was not changed until almost the end of the Vaught production of the F4U-1A corsair. Further productions of the F4U were passed onto either Brewster of Goodyear.

From the records I've looked at my aircraft JT260 that was allocated BuNo17862 and was in a batch of 25 (BuNo17847-17871) F4U-1As allocated to the FAA (JT240-269). This was the fourth last batch of F4Us allocated to the FAA that came out of the Vaught factory. The production batches were as follows:
F4U-1A – FAA Corsair I; BuNo17592-17616 (JT170/194),
F4U-1A – FAA Corsair II; BuNo17697-17721 (JT195/219),
F4U-1A – FAA Corsair II; BuNo17752-17776 (JT220/244),
F4U-1A – FAA Corsair II; BuNo17847-17871 (JT245/269),
F4U-1A – FAA Corsair II; BuNo17952 -17962 (JT270/280),
F4U-1A – FAA Corsair II; BuNo18082-18106 (JT281/305),
F4U 1 – FAA Corsair I; BuNo18122-18191 (JT100/169).

Looking at the bigger picture, Vaught production of the F4U-1A was some 660 aircraft and my machine was the 420th of that production where a chromate change took place. The dilemma is, do I use a salmon chromate or a yellow chromate. All I can find is a statement that at some time during the production of the F4U-1A, Vaught made the switch from the salmon to the yellow.

I need help folks, has anybody got any suggestions or can they throw any further light on this chromate dilemma.

 

[fubar57]

Maybe this guy Vic Barf
He replied to my "Which F4U?" Thread in the Airplane Pictures Request up above

 

[Wurger]

From Dana Bell's web posts ...

The early primer coat would have been "salmon" over untinted (yellow) zinc chromate, so you wouldn't find Yellow Green or Interior Green in the wheel wells.

The cockpit color for Vought's Birdcage Corsairs originally was Dull Dark Green, not black as sometimes listed. In spring 1943 BuAer advised Vought to finish up with their stocks of Dull Dark Green and switch to a color that would eventually be known as Interior Green. Vought responded that they had stocks of aluminized zinc chromate and asked permisssion to use up those stocks too. BuAer agreed, and it appears that all Vought Birdcages were delivered in Dull Dark Green or aluminized zinc chromate. The switch to Interior Green seems to have first come with the F4U-1A.

Aluminized zinc chromate was a bright candy-apple green. With the addition of black pigment it became a cockpit color called Yellow Green (not used in Corsairs). With out the aluminum paste (just zinc chromate and black) it became our familiar Interior Green in 1943.

In spring 1943 (as production was shifting to the "-1A"), the Navy ordered manufacturers to discontinue use of Salmon and Dull Dark Green as soon as existing stocks were depleted - for the Corsair this seems to have happened sometime in the summer of 1943. For most interior surfaces, Vought, Brewster, and Goodyear received permission to apply one or two coats of untinted zinc chromate (yellow) primer - not Interior Green. Main gear wells were still camouflaged [white], while the after well was generally not.

The following notes apply to Birdcage Corsairs only - there were additional variations on later models.

The aircraft was expected to have two coats of primer over most assemblies. The first coat was untinted (yellow) zinc chromate; the second coat was to be tinted to ensure that there were no "holiday" areas that received only one coat. As such, there should be "salmon" nearly everywhere.

The cockpit also needed a coat of darker paint to reduce reflections on instrument faces and windows. Early on this was Dull Dark Green.

The inside of the engine cowl also needed an additional finish coat to reduce the posibilities of flash fires. This was usually the same Light Gray camouflage lacquer used on Corsair undersurfaces.

When BuAer decided to step away from "Salmon" and Dull Dark Green, Vought got a special waiver on the two coats of primer. The first coat was still untinted (yellow) zinc chromate. If the underlying metal was Alclad (aluminum alloy coated with pure aluminum) no second coat was needed. If the underlying metal was aluminum alloy, the first coat of untinted zinc chromate was stamped "1st COAT" in black ink; a second coat of untinted zinch chromate was then applied. Since the primer was transluscent, the black stamped notice would appear green under the second coat.

With the Navy dropping Dull Dark Green, the cockpit still needed to be darker. BuAer recommended Interior Green, but another waiver allowed Vought to used that bright aluminized zinc chromate. Note that some subassemblies were delivered in Dull Dark Green before being introduced to the bright green cockpit.

Instrument panels and side consoles were Instrument Black, a satin finish.

Wheel wells were nearly always painted in the underside camouflage color, thought there were a handful of exceptions.

There was still plenty of Light Gray in stock, so that paint was still used inside cowlings into production of the -1As.

Remember that US Corsairs used dope on fabric (all the way to the wing tip edges on wings) and lacquer on aluminum. The two paints were spec'd to the same color charts, but the paints rarely matched when fresh, and certainly never matched as they weathered.

A final note on wear over the wing roots - the Birdcage Corsair leading edges were smoothed, just like we expect on P-51 Mustangs. This was then overpainted with two coats of primer (see above) and two coats of camouflage lacquer. As boots wore though the camouflage, the primer came off too - you would see the white putty rather than the primer of unpainted aluminum.

the another quote from the net
....

From the Maintenance and Erection Manual for the F4U-1:

Tinting Medium USN Spec. TT-I-511 Indian Red Paste. Qty 1 ½ lbs. Valentine, NY.
Indian Red is a dark red-brown color and is widely available as an artist oil paint sold in art supply stores and full line hobby shops.
The Indian Red was to be prepared as follows:
2 oz. of Indian Red mixed in 2 gals. of toluol or equivalent (AN-T-8b toluol substitute, similar to lacquer thinner) solvent.
This mixture was to be used to reduce 1 gal. of zinc chromate package material (un-reduced zinc chromate primer). This mixture was known as TINTED PRIMER (my caps). This comes from pages 1106 and 1110 of the F4U 1 Corsair Erection and Maintenance Instructions.

For additional reading ...

F4U-1 CORSAIR PRIMER AND INTERIOR COLORS

F4U-1 CORSAIR PRIMER AND INTERIOR COLORS For those who don’t look at the main page I am posting this article here also. The three Corsair photos were scanned using Adobe PhotoShop 5.5 to get the hue, saturation and brightness of the colors. Measurements were taken at the darkest areas and the l...

www.arcforums.com

Pink salmon primer on F4U-1?

Gents, Were the primed surfaces visible in this color or were they covered with finished paint? Thanks

forum.largescaleplanes.com

Early war F4U-1 Birdcage Corsair salmon primer questions

I'm currently planning my next build, a Tamiya 1/32 Birdcage Corsair. According to the Dana Bell book the early machines used salmon pink primer. He also states that the wheel wells were light grey over the primer. Would the inside of the landing gear doors be left salmon? Also, what about the in...

forum.largescaleplanes.com

Corsair F4U-1A Interior Colours

Dear All, One of my next projects will be the Revell 72nd scale F4U-1A Corsair which, whilst not as fine as the Tamiya equivalent, looks to be a good kit and at less than half the cost of the latter. The kit itself has two decal options, one for a Marine Corps unit in December 1943 and the other ...

www.britmodeller.com

 

[Wurger]

And ... from Corsair wheel bay and U/C colour question.

The F4U section of the William Reece document that circulates modeling forums:

F4U-1 Birdcage Corsair:

Cockpit: Well this is tricky. The best evidence is black. Photos of F4U-1s taken at the time show the cockpits as being a very dark color. The F4U-1 E & M manual calls for Dull Dark Green. Photos and some wrecks show flat black. A photo of "Pappy" Boyington in Bruce Gamble's book, The Black Sheep, shows him sitting in a Birdcage with a black armor plate and upper seat. This a/c also has no headrest. All other areas of the F4U-1 Birdcage Corsair would normally be 'Salmon'. Salmon is a pale pinkish/brown primer made by mixing Indian Red pigment with Zinc Chromate Yellow. The closest Munsell match is 2.5 YR 6/8 or between FS 32276 and FS 32356. This color was applied to the whole F4U before the final camouflage finish. The landing gear bays were this color. The insides of the main gear doors were Light Gray. Sometimes this was only over spray on the Salmon. Note: there were canvas covers on the inner and outer wheel bays that were either Olive Drab or Light Gray. The closest paint that I have found to the Salmon samples in my possession is PollyScale Railroad, Southern Pacific Daylight Orange. The E & M manual calls for the wheel bays, engine cowling and accessory cowlings to be painted in Non-Specular Light Gray to match the underside of the aircraft. But, recovered wrecks show these areas to be Salmon. Color photos of early Corsairs show the cowling interior to be Non-Specular Light Gray.

F4U-1A Corsair:

Cockpit: FS 34151 Interior Green. All other areas of the F4U-1A were Zinc Chromate Yellow, FS 33481. Early F4U-1A's may have been Salmon. Landing gear: Light Gray or Aluminum Lacquer. This was true well into the F4U-4 production. Some a/c may have had Insignia white landing gear after overhaul or repaint.

F4U-1D Corsair:

Cockpit: FS 34151 Interior Green. The area above the consoles was black. This matches the Navy's directives at the time very well. Inside of the wheel bays and engine cowling were also Interior Green FS 34151. Wheel bays could have been Zinc Chromate Yellow, FS 33481. Landing gear was Light Gull Gray or Aluminum Lacquer. After overhaul aircraft could have had the landing gear, wheel centers and wheel bays painted Glossy Sea Blue.

F4U-4 Corsair:

Cockpit: FS 34151 Interior Green. The area above the consoles was black. Inside of the engine cowling was Zinc Chromate Yellow, Interior Green or possibly Flat Black with the area ahead of the cylinder seal in Glossy Sea Blue. All other visible areas were Glossy Dark Sea Blue similar to the F6F-5. Landing Gear: Aluminum Lacquer or Light Gray. After overhaul aircraft could have had the landing gear, wheel centers and wheel bays painted Glossy Sea Blue.

and here Andy's thread with Dana's opinion ... 1/48 Tamiya F4U-1 Bird Cage Corsair

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Thanks George, it looks like our friend Wojtek may have found the best of the goodies.

Wojtek
Many thanks my friend, I've read much of this over the past couple of months and tend to lean towards the conventional yellow/green chromate. but there is also a little devil inside of me wanting to be unconventional and go for the salmon. Does that make sense to you.

 

[Wurger]

Actually yes it does. If you not sure becuase there is no evidence you may do what you want.
IMHO all is clear. The first coat was of the YZC protective and then the salmon primer one over that. However the cockpit interior should be of the Dull Dark Green over the YZC for the all F4U-1s and the first F4U-1As. Also please note that both the YZC and the Indian Red were the protective primers only but not the final colours. It can be noticed in a couple of pics of the F4U wrackage where the whole fuselage interior is of the Salmon dope but the cockpit isn't. What is more both of them could be used either together or separately. The nice example is the image with the wing where the front part is of the YZC and the back rest of the wing structure of the salmon coat.

Early on, Vought and Brewster had quality control problems at their Corsair plants. The original spec for the production Corsair called for 5 coats of zinc chromate. However, within months, corrosion commenced to appear. Vought and Brewster reacted by painting the pink-tinted primer over the top of the ZC. The thinking was that by doing so, they'd get at least two visible coats of anti-corrosive on the plane and staunch some of the oxidation issues. This went on for several months before the manufacturers returned to all ZC. Quality control issues at the plants gradually abated and the pink primer disappeared into faint memory. Grumman and Douglas never experienced the problem. I was told this story thirty years ago by the former chief of airframe inspections at the Navy's Alameda O&R facility.

the source: Early war F4U-1 Birdcage Corsair salmon primer questions

 

[N4521U]

Vic old man, glad to hear you are vertical again.

 

[Crimea_River]

I like smoked salmon if that helps.

 

[N4521U]

Good lord, this painting thing is worse than getting Annie to decide what color I paint my workshop walls!!!!
Kinda glad my GB61 build id an F4U-1D. This thread will prove to be quite the library of Corsair painting.

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Good lord, this painting thing is worse than getting Annie to decide what color I paint my workshop walls!!!!
Kinda glad my GB61 build id an F4U-1D. This thread will prove to be quite the library of Corsair painting.

I wouldn't chuckle.

 

[N4521U]

BTW Vic, I did google "FS Dull Dark Green" it came up with FS34092.
So looking at SMS and that FS# comes up with PL78 Foliage Green.
Now my mix for my GB59 P-40 was PL78 (2) PL77 (1) Foliage Green and Forest Green.
The Foliage is a pretty dull dark green. Worth a gander to see if it's a good match.
Or my dyslexia has your colours backerds!

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Thanks Bill. I've got the PL78 and have also mixed it with a drop of black which toned it down nicely. So I'm going to run with that.

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Thought it was about time I got this little show on the road, the virus has still got me by the short and curlies so I now have some more antibiotics, but at least I felt like doing something today. Before I go any further though, my sincere thanks to all who have helped with the colour problems related to this build. I've decided on what colouring I'm going to use but am keeping it to myself for the time being, just in case I change my mind.

As is my want I made a start with the cockpit seat and pulled up Andy's thread where there are some excellent details on this machines build. The first couple of pics show the kit parts as is. I forgot to take pics initially so this bulkhead is for an earlier Corsair which is almost identical save for the head cushion. Please forgive the fluff in the second pic, didn't see it until doing the PhotoPad.

Here we have today's work in progress, some modifications to bring the kit more in line with the real thing, it also helps to raise the seat a tad as the FAA raised them some 80cm.

I'll finish the seat off tomorrow and then start on the rest of the cockpit.

 

[Wurger]

 

[N4521U]

Nicely done!!!!!!!