Al. S. Neworth
Recruit
- 3
- Jan 3, 2019
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The Tempest was responsible for 20 262 kills by VE Day.
Well that's some serious numbers, on it's own the tempest killed 1/5 of all the LW production... bombers included....
Sarcasm inside...
Well that's some serious numbers, on it's own the tempest killed 1/5 of all the LW production... bombers included....
Sarcasm inside...
While that may seem impressive, just how many of those kills were achieved while the jet was taking off or landing?The Tempest was responsible for 20 262 kills by VE Day.
Probably most if not all of them. However to be fair, they do seem to have caught them better than most. The high speed low altitude performance on the Tempest must have helpedWhile that may seem impressive, just how many of those kills were achieved while the jet was taking off or landing?
They were just as shot down. Tactics is making sure a fight is unfair in your favor.While that may seem impressive, just how many of those kills were achieved while the jet was taking off or landing?
One LW ace said that the Tempest was a very dangerous opponent for the Me262 at low level.They were just as shot down. Tactics is making sure a fight is unfair in your favor.
We may be thinking of the same quote but I remember reading one of the well known Luftwaffe aces( I believe it was Galland but not 100% sure) say that he thought the Tempest was the greatest threat to his jets at lower altitude.One LW ace said that the Tempest was a very dangerous opponent for the Me262 at low level.
None of them were stupid and they all had a fantastic sense of self preservation, that is why they survived. The Tempest was fast at low level, fairly agile and had 4 cannon, only a fool wouldn't respect it. Even today a Tempest would be bad news for an F-35B coming in to land.We may be thinking of the same quote but I remember reading one of the well known Luftwaffe aces( I believe it was Galland but not 100% sure) say that he thought the Tempest was the greatest threat to his jets at lower altitude.
True, however, there is a difference between exploiting the Me262's Achilles' heel and meeting it in combat.They were just as shot down. Tactics is making sure a fight is unfair in your favor.
Not all the Me262s shot down by Tempests were kills as the jets were landing, as this list of some of the Tempest combat reports shows. It seems the high speed of the 262 forced it into wide turns the slower Tempest could cut across and get a deflection shot in.True, however, there is a difference between exploiting the Me262's Achilles' heel and meeting it in combat.
Simply exclaiming that the Tempest downed 20 isn't doing the Tempest's fighting abilities any justice.
Not to mention the Sabre engines notorious unreliability, an issue that was never really fixed.
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The Tempest had spring-tab ailerons and was renowned for light yet powerful controls right up to its max permitted diving speed, Vne.What ?!
First off Messerschmidt designed the Me-262 to be an air-superiority fighter, it was Hitler who wanted it to fullfill the fighter-bomber role, NOT Messerschmidt.
Secondly Messerschmidt never claimed the Me-209 to be better than the Me-262.
Thirdly where the heck have you heard the Me-410 was supposed to reach 680 km/h ??? The design goal was 625-630 km/h !
Hitler wasn't really naive, he was paranoid as heck though.
That is completely made up on your part Civettone.
I've got the very same chart and one thing is for sure, you're not reading it correctly!
You need glasses Civettone cause on that very chart the Dora-9 exceeds 703 km/h at 5.7km, which "oddly" enough is exactly the same as on the official leistung chart I presented. Note the SL speed as-well plz, ~ 615 km/h.
692 km/h at 5.4km with ETC-504 - sounds correct.
The above figures look right enough...
Thats just being ridiculously simplistic ignorant on your part Civettone, cause its not wing-loading which matters, its lift-loading, which in turn is dependant on CLmax. And like the P-51 the Tempest features a laminar flow type airfoil, which in short means low drag but also low lift pr. area - hence why a underpowered FW-190 Jabo will turn with the Tempest. The FW-190 on the other hand features a very high lift airfoil (NACA 23000 series) with a CLmax around 1.58 - 1.64, hence why the FW-190 was famous for its excellent responsiveness. So in this department the Dora-9 is far superior to the Tempest.
Again the Dora-9 is superior.
As explained above you're incorrect in your assessment Civettone. The FW-190 Dora-9 featured both better instantanous and sustained turn performance than the Tempest, and the FW-190 already possessed the best high speed handling of any piston engined fighter. So the Tempest would be at a real loss if the fight was at high speed.
As have already been told German comparative testing concluded the FW-190 Dora-9 to be a much superior dogfighter compared to the Tempest, and the RAF's own tests only reinforce that conclusion.
It was the ability of if the Tempest to accelerate from a cruise power setting to a combat /intercept speed, surely, not the speed itself necessarilyProbably most if not all of them. However to be fair, they do seem to have caught them better than most. The high speed low altitude performance on the Tempest must have helped
I can't find the post I wanted to reply to, so I'm placing it here: Somebody wrote, "The D-9 was a high altitude interceptor ..."It`s an excellent resource IMHO, but a word of warning : I`ve noticed especially about the first six months of 1944 that the subtypes are not always 100% accurate.
Thinking about conversions and rebuilds here.. for example the first G-5/6/AS are reported on those TOEs (rather, equipment 'movement' reports) list in June/July the earliest IIRC (which I why I was surprised when you said somewhere you saw /AS aircraft in the spring - which unit..? ). Hhowever it is certain that the first lucky units had them as early as March/April 1944 already.
For example, it is evidenced byKnoke`s diary and some photographs of his CO`s aircraft which is clearly a G-5/AS or G-6/AS with methanol boost (AS cowling + Red legs clearly visible, date of photo certain because he received some award which`s date is known, Knoke mentions the same in his diary).. here`s the beast :
View attachment 390545
The unit strenght returns of ww2.dk however only lists ordinary Neubau G-5s arriving... no /AS, nothing.
I presume they reported dataplates and serial numbers, which, for some early conversions, may have not been stamped over in the factory, and on paper those aircraft were still 'G-5's and 'G-6's, or the designation was just not yet standard etc. And, most /AS aircraft until mid-1944 were conversions... same about MW-50. No clue in the Bewegungsmeldungen which aircraft have these... the precise subtypes are obviously not listed in many cases, which as I said, probably a result of the conversion, not to mention there was no clear designation for the aircraft with MW-50 initially (unofficial things like G-6/MW and the like appearing sometimes..).
For this reason, the exact type structure are difficult to arrive at for early 1944, but it seemed to it`s specific thing to that period, which can be explained by large number of conversions, and interim designations suddenly appearing.
I can't find the post I wanted to reply to, so I'm placing it here: Somebody wrote, "The D-9 was a high altitude interceptor ..."
That is not accurate. The D-9's wings were too short for high altitude flight. One reason that Kurt Tank deigned the Ta-152-H.