Dornier do 335

[BIG BIRD]

Dose anbody have any info on the do 335 such as manuveribility, did it see any combat, how well it performed at hight altitudes, and how well did it dogfight. I just started in depth resirch of the do 335 the other day and found out that that plane is ! I was just wondering if it had entered large scale production if it would have the ability to change the corase of the war by shooting down large numbers of allied bombers and state of the art fighters.

Any info would be much apricated. I think that plane would have had a 8) awsome potental and I am just plane desperite for info on performince.

 

[SoD Stitch]

Dose anbody have any info on the do 335 such as manuveribility, did it see any combat, how well it performed at hight altitudes, and how well did it dogfight. I just started in depth resirch of the do 335 the other day and found out that that plane is ! I was just wondering if it had entered large scale production if it would have the ability to change the corase of the war by shooting down large numbers of allied bombers and state of the art fighters.

Any info would be much apricated. I think that plane would have had a 8) awsome potental and I am just plane desperite for info on performince.

The Do 335 is probably my favorite German plane of WWII (just look at my siggy!); it had a lot of potential but, like so many other German wunder weapons, it was just too late to see action. According to OFFICIAL records, no Do 335 took part in any combat with Allied aircraft. Supposedly, a couple were spotted in the air by Allied pilots, but they were (supposedly) unable to close with the a/c due to it's incredible speed (400 mph+ at low level, 470+ at altitude). Would it have been able to change the course of the War? Maybe, if it had been introduced in 1943 or 1944, instead of 1945. However, by then, the Me 262 was entering production, and the scant German resources available by then would probably have been better used on the 262, rather than the 335 (as much as I love the 335). It is, if nothing else, the ultimate piston-engine fighter, extremely fast, and reasonably maneuverable, especially for it's size. I have often wondered how it would've done at the Reno air races against other WWII "superfighters"; I suspect it would've walked away from them, given it's overwhelming power and extremely efficient airframe.

The initial production variant was the Do 335A, a single-seat fighter-bomber armed with one (1) 30mm Mk 103 cannon firing through the spinner, and two (2) 15mm MG 151 machine guns in the cowl, plus an internal bomb bay, capable of carrying either one (1) 500 kg bomb, or two (2) 250 kg bombs. The only other major variant scheduled to enter mass-production was the Do 335B bomber-destroyer, which carried two (2) 30mm Mk 103 cannons in the wings (firing outside of the propeller arc), along with the aforementioned MG 151's in the cowl position. The only German aviation unit to fly the 335 was the Erprobungskommado, which was the Luftwaffe's wartime test evaluation unit. A total of approximately 40 airframes were built during 1944-45, but only one survives today. One can only imagine what would have happened if the 335 had been introduced even six months earlier; with a projected top speed of 474 mph+, no Allied a/c would've been able to touch it, until the advent of the P-80 Shooting Star in late 1945. Unfortunately, it didn't have much of a combat ceiling (37,400'/11,400m), so it's performance above 35,000' is questonable. However, for an airplane of it's size, it was surprisngly maneuverable, though not as maneuverable as a comparable single-engine fighter; the 335 would've excelled at destroying larger, less maneuverable targets (like two- and four-engine bombers). If you are into flight sims, and want to find out what it was like to fly the Pfeil, try playing Microsoft's Combat Flight Simulator 3.

Go here for the link to a website that has some really good pictures of the sole surviving Do 335 at the Smithsonian Air Space Museum (actually, the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center).

 

[HoHun]

Hi Bigbird,

>Dose anbody have any info on the do 335 such as manuveribility, did it see any combat, how well it performed at hight altitudes, and how well did it dogfight.

Have a look at this post:

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/do-335-vs-ta-152-a-9057-2.html#post333382

(If the direct link doesn't work, it's post #46 in this thread: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/do-335-vs-ta-152-a-9057.html )

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[BIG BIRD]

Thanks a ton fore the info. the do 335 was a realy good aircraft. Even if it would have been outclassed by jets it was still an awsome aircraft. This seems to werd to be true but a do 335 was faster than a gloster meteor. You also have to keep in mind that a do 335 could out run most allied fighters with a 2,000 pound bomb load.

 

[Erich]

there is absolutely no written proof it was an excellent A/C or it could outrun ANY US/RAF fighter

you should know it never faced Allied opponents and going by experimental tech sheets will not prove anything in a real combat situation

 

[HoHun]

Hi Erich,

>you should know it never faced Allied opponents and going by experimental tech sheets will not prove anything in a real combat situation

All air forces of the world bought their combat aircraft on the basis of "experimental tech sheets", so suggesting they "will not prove anything" strikes me as an unjustified exaggeration ... to put it mildly.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[BIG BIRD]

french ace Pierre Clostermanm ocording to wiki pedia claims the first enconter with the do 335 wich makes me thimk that there are more less famos encounters. there were also flight tests that proved the do 335's speed. even without the boost it could still reach 425 mph.

 

[Erich]

the graph thing reminds me of mechanical simulations to stimulate the pilots, nothing more. Clostermann has already been proven he "blanked" out and it is through both his books, non confirmed reports, just like some of his victories.

we will never know so why push an adjenda that it was the fastest and coolest a/c around. I just don't see it as valid and I am not alone.

Deal with what was really used instead of the what-ifs which these forums are full of

 

[HoHun]

Hi Erich,

>the graph thing ...

Here is the relevant quote from the preface of Robert Shaw's "Fighter Combat - Tactics and Maneuvering". In case you do not know the book : It has been called the fighter pilots' bible - by fighter pilots.

"Much of what you will read here has been derived from personal flight experience, engineering analysis of fighter performance data, and 'bar talk' with other fighter pilots."

"The graph thing" simply is Shaw's "engineering analysis of fighter performance data". Obviously, he it considers an important tool for information gain ... as did every air force that ever bought an aircraft.

Dismissing engineering analysis as completely irrelevant or invalid ... well, that's not how it's treated in real life.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[SoD Stitch]

we will never know so why push an adjenda that it was the fastest and coolest a/c around. I just don't see it as valid and I am not alone.

Deal with what was really used instead of the what-ifs which these forums are full of

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, as we all are; however, I kinda enjoy discussing these "what-ifs", and I think some others do, too. History is history, what happened is what happened, that's not gonna change. But it's still fun to wonder what would have happened "if only . . . . ." As much could be said for some of the Allied experimental variants as for the Axis variants, but the Germans just had more of them, so there's more to deal with there.

 

[Erich]

understand gentlemen that I DO understand your points fully, but even with flight testing via mock combats and even with an Allied craft post war, this is not a true combat situation you guys know full well what I speak.

via other forums when we get to what-ifs and some of you know this through proof of other texts and visuals, arguments are most likely to occur in these types of threads more so than any other , real data gets projected then twisted and then ............ so it does deem pointless nearly 90 % of the time.

carry on gents

could the Do 335 have been an outstanding craft : very possibly but what has been said earlier the LW tech crews loved experimenting instead of presiding on one proven idea

 

[SoD Stitch]

could the Do 335 have been an outstanding craft : very possibly but what has been said earlier the LW tech crews loved experimenting instead of presiding on one proven idea

And that, I believe, was one of the contributing factors (among many others) that led to Germany's defeat; they tended to dissipate their creative and technical energies in 10 different directions instead of, as you said, concentrating on one or two proven concepts (like the Me 262 and the Ta 152/153). I would say that probably 80-90% of the "experimental" projects the Germans worked on, especially in the last half of the War, were a complete waste of time resources; I suppose we should be thankful for that, however, since it made it easier for us to defeat them.

 

[HoHun]

Hi Erich,

>real data gets projected then twisted and then ............

You are using a passive tense there that creates an ambiguity about who is twisting the data.

I guess that is just a glitch in your choice of words and you are going to correct the wrong impression that you're accusing me of twisting data in your next post.

Kind regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[Erich]

are you taking what I said personally......read the rest of my sentance, it is common that on most threads of this nature that real data gets thrown out and then twisted............ more clear ? maybe not, I am using this from past and present experience(s), this Ho-Hun does not and am not pointing a crooked finger at you

hth ?

 

[HoHun]

Hi Erich,

>hth ?

It is completely jumbled and unclear, so I have to rely on intuition to decipher the message ... stay tuned, I'm a bit out of practice ... I sense positive vibrations telling me that you did not have any evil intentions. So please consider our misunderstanding resolved!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[Graeme]

even without the boost it could still reach 425 mph.

...and with a dead stag in the back seat, 435mph...



(AE No.52 1993 pp58)

 

[SoD Stitch]

...and with a dead stag in the back seat, 435mph...



(AE No.52 1993 pp58)

Yes; unfortuntely, the only two-seat B-2 version to make it out of Germany in one piece ended up in France, where it was tested and, after June 4, 1948, disappears from history.

 

[machine shop tom]

Here are a few planes that would have give the Do 335 a run for it's money had the Dornier reached fruition.

P-47M and P47N Thunderbolt
Sea Fury
F4U Corsair

Others I am sure but the kids are tearing the house apart.......

I think the ultimate counterpart to the Do 335 would have been the XP-72 version of the Thunderbolt.

tom

 

[SoD Stitch]

Yes; unfortuntely, the only two-seat B-2 version to make it out of Germany in one piece ended up in France, where it was tested and, after June 4, 1948, disappears from history.

I mispoke; actually, TWO "B" variants made it out of Germany, and both supposedly ended up in Farnborough, England, were they were extensively tested before both being lost in crashes. However, another one of my sources has one of the B-2's being scrapped in France circa 1949; the other source has both B-2's ending up in Britain, and subsequently being destroyed in crashes (circa 1950).

 

[Graeme]

I mispoke; actually, TWO "B" variants made it out of Germany, and both supposedly ended up in Farnborough, England, were they were extensively tested before both being lost in crashes. However, another one of my sources has one of the B-2's being scrapped in France circa 1949; the other source has both B-2's ending up in Britain, and subsequently being destroyed in crashes (circa 1950).

Hi SoD. I don't know about the "B" variant, but I do know that Farnborough test flew a Do335A-12...



And yes, Eric Brown was one of the pilots! It eventually crashed on 18 January 1946 killing test pilot Grp Capt A F Hards when it plunged into a school house in Cove Village. The cause was believed to be a rear engine fire that eventually burnt through the elevator control cables.

What do you know about the ejection seats? The French article mentions that they estimated that the seat when fired would leave with a force of 18G. In Roger Receveau words...

"...absolutely no organism could live at that!"

I reckon they should have tried it out with that dead stag! They did try a ground test but it failed and was "declared totally ineffective".