Dream liner down in India on air port

[Gnomey]

I'm still betting on something maintenance or fuel related.

We'll see though…

Certainly seems most likely but all a waiting game now.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

787 inspections completed and no major flaws found. Air India Maintenance and Coordination issues flagged, however. Not surprised at that.

Air India latest: Investigators find major emergency power clue for crash

Indian aviation regulator finds no major safety flaws in Air India Dreamliners but flags maintenance and coordination issues

www.independent.co.uk

 

[SaparotRob]

Glad I fly Koreanair.

 

[AerialTorpedoDude69]

The pilot had over 8,000 hours and the co-pilot had over 1,000. This is a little bit below what you'd expect for a 787 pilot flying in the states. I think many captains have 10,000 hours or more. Correct me if I'm wrong. There's no mention of how much experience the captain had in type.

In the book on the 737-Max disaster "Flying Blind", Boeing tried to make it easy to transition between types by having more standardized and customized cockpits. They claimed that this would reduce training costs and it made the 700 series more lucrative for airlines. I wonder how true this claim is.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

The pilot had over 8,000 hours and the co-pilot had over 1,000. This is a little bit below what you'd expect for a 787 pilot flying in the states. I think many captains have 10,000 hours or more. Correct me if I'm wrong. There's no mention of how much experience the captain had in type.

In the book on the 737-Max disaster "Flying Blind", Boeing tried to make it easy to transition between types by having more standardized and customized cockpits. They claimed that this would reduce training costs and it made the 700 series more lucrative for airlines. I wonder how true this claim is.

In a documentary on the 737-Max accidents, it was claimed that the lack of additional training was a requirement in order to advertise reduce costs in transitioning to the Max. When the conclusion is mandated, sometimes the reasoning to get to that conclusion can get a bit convoluted.
Regarding the AI171 dual engine failure even though one engine was basically new, I am wondering if there are differences in the fuel system between the GE and RR engines and if the engine failures may have been due to a mismatch of components. Air India uses both GE and RR engines in their 787s.

 

[Alex Smart]

Couldn't find the post in this thread today but seem to recall reading a post that reported that the crash was due to the pilot's seat moved which unfortunately meant that the pilot reaching for a switch/leaver (?) handled the wrong one at a critical moment . Has that post been deleted or have I overlooked it ?

 

[Alex Smart]

Cannot find it maybe I imagined it ?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Investigators probing the deadly Air India crash on June 12 have confirmed that sabotage has not been ruled out.

Some 274 victims were killed when the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner plunged into a building, shortly after it took off from Ahmedabad Airport in India on its journey to London Gatwick in the United Kingdom.

India's aviation minister Murlidhar Mohol told reporters it was possible that the disaster had occurred as the result of a deliberate act. The grim theory was one of several possibilities being explored by experts at India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB), he said.

[...]

India's aviation minister Murlidhar Mohol told reporters it was possible that the disaster had occurred as the result of a deliberate act. The grim theory was one of several possibilities being explored by experts at India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB), he said.

[...]

There had been reports that other countries' experts would be involved in the investigation, but Mohol the the black box "will not go anywhere," adding: "It is in AAIB's custody and there is no need to send it outside. We will do the entire investigation... Once the report comes, we will be able to ascertain if it was an engine problem or fuel supply issue or why both the engines had stopped functioning."

Besides the possibility of sabotage, aviation experts say other theories will also be explored, such as an aircraft malfunction, a bird strike, or pilot error.

Air India "sabotage" theory under investigation in deadly plane crash

The aviation disaster on June 12 killed 274 people, including 242 on board and dozens more on the ground.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Airborne2001]

Investigators probing the deadly Air India crash on June 12 have confirmed that sabotage has not been ruled out.

Some 274 victims were killed when the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner plunged into a building, shortly after it took off from Ahmedabad Airport in India on its journey to London Gatwick in the United Kingdom.

India's aviation minister Murlidhar Mohol told reporters it was possible that the disaster had occurred as the result of a deliberate act. The grim theory was one of several possibilities being explored by experts at India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB), he said.

[...]

India's aviation minister Murlidhar Mohol told reporters it was possible that the disaster had occurred as the result of a deliberate act. The grim theory was one of several possibilities being explored by experts at India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB), he said.

[...]

There had been reports that other countries' experts would be involved in the investigation, but Mohol the the black box "will not go anywhere," adding: "It is in AAIB's custody and there is no need to send it outside. We will do the entire investigation... Once the report comes, we will be able to ascertain if it was an engine problem or fuel supply issue or why both the engines had stopped functioning."

Besides the possibility of sabotage, aviation experts say other theories will also be explored, such as an aircraft malfunction, a bird strike, or pilot error.

Air India "sabotage" theory under investigation in deadly plane crash

The aviation disaster on June 12 killed 274 people, including 242 on board and dozens more on the ground.

www.newsweek.com

This is depressing, but sadly not surprising.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

This is depressing, but sadly not surprising.

Given the recent hostilities with Pakistan, I think it has to be considered. Pakistan's ISI has launched terror attacks on Indian soil previously.

 

[MIflyer]

It looks like there is a scenario that fits the circumstances quite well. When the pilot of the 787 applied full power his seat unlocked and slid about 12 inches aft. In his attempt to pull himself back into position he pulled back on the throttles, causing them to go to idle thrust. Seems not known why the "TouchandGoandTakeoff" was not pushed or if it failed when it was; that would have corrected the situation. The same aircraft suffered the identical seat failure a few months before and it was repaired.

This may seem like an absurd situation but is entirely plausible and I have even had it happen to me! Cessna aircraft such as the 150, 152, 172, etc., use a similar "peg in the hole" type of seat locking mechanism and an Airworthiness Directive was issued on the problem. One day, taking off from Vandenberg AFB in a Cessna 150, my seat released on climbout, and I slid all the way back to the end of the seat rail. That produced a sudden sharp pull up as I clung to the control wheel. Fortunately I had a copilot and I was able to tell him to take the controls until I could get back into position; this despite having the pilot yell "SHIT!" followed by the sharp pitch up.

I believe the Cessna fix involved a bungee cord kind of arrangement so there is always positive force holding the seat into position.

My Ercoupe's seat is firmly affixed to the main spar and cannot be moved, another advantage of not having any rudder pedals.

 

[special ed]

My old F6F buddy told one of his post war civil flying adventures in a surplus BT-13. He said the seat was mounted on bungee cords and once while landing, cords broke dropping him inside. He still landed without damage.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

It looks like there is a scenario that fits the circumstances quite well. When the pilot of the 787 applied full power his seat unlocked and slid about 12 inches aft. In his attempt to pull himself back into position he pulled back on the throttles, causing them to go to idle thrust. Seems not known why the "TouchandGoandTakeoff" was not pushed or if it failed when it was; that would have corrected the situation. The same aircraft suffered the identical seat failure a few months before and it was repaired.

This may seem like an absurd situation but is entirely plausible and I have even had it happen to me! Cessna aircraft such as the 150, 152, 172, etc., use a similar "peg in the hole" type of seat locking mechanism and an Airworthiness Directive was issued on the problem. One day, taking off from Vandenberg AFB in a Cessna 150, my seat released on climbout, and I slid all the way back to the end of the seat rail. That produced a sudden sharp pull up as I clung to the control wheel. Fortunately I had a copilot and I was able to tell him to take the controls until I could get back into position; this despite having the pilot yell "SHIT!" followed by the sharp pitch up.

I believe the Cessna fix involved a bungee cord kind of arrangement so there is always positive force holding the seat into position.

My Ercoupe's seat is firmly affixed to the main spar and cannot be moved, another advantage of not having any rudder pedals.

There's a bit of that going around. A recent report about an unintentional ground ejection here in Texas at a USAF base concluded that the safety-pin for the D-ring on the seat wasn't fully in place and when the pilot leaned forward to detach a thigh-strap, his chest-ring grabbed the D-ring and off he went.

Odd how such simple things are overlooked on such complex beasts.

 

[Alex Smart]

Thank you, that's the story I was asking about, I was beginning to think that I had imagined it.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

My old F6F buddy told one of his post war civil flying adventures in a surplus BT-13. He said the seat was mounted on bungee cords and once while landing, cords broke dropping him inside. He still landed without damage.

Seems like there is something really wrong with that idea. If a bungee were all that was holding the seat in place, then it would move if the aircraft pulled any G. I don't know anything about the seat but it seems much more likely that the bungee was only there to lift the seat when it was being adjusted and what SHOULD have been holding it in place was a pin of some sort.