Early Spitfire Bracket for "Instrument"

Discussion in 'Technical Requests' started by Tony Hill, Dec 1, 2016.

  1. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    What about pip squeak equipment, where was that mounted ?
     
  2. Tony Hill

    Tony Hill Active Member

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    Sorry Terry, no no luck with M&S...just the usual procession of excellent information hidden within stupid mistakes.. ;)
     
  3. Tony Hill

    Tony Hill Active Member

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    Not IFF either Rochie, sorry. Too early and that was mounted high starboard with the destruction buttons further aft. but not fitted until late September on any organised basis.
     
  4. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Darryl, I think you're right. At first it looked to me as though the ring/clip had something in it but now that I look at it again, I see the empty ring.
     
  5. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Hmm. Early Spits - just a stab in the dark, but maybe a test instrument of some kind, such as a 'g' meter or early form of stress/fatigue meter ?
     
  6. Tony Hill

    Tony Hill Active Member

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    I started thinking test instrument Terry, when I only had photos of the VERY early Spits with the bracket and most of those "test" planes at some stage. But the German capture being SO late and actually having the bracket threw that into doubt. With P9374 and N3200 being built later but in service at the same time NOT having it, the conclusion to me, is that it is a Merlin II thing. I'm going to go back over 278 Spitfire I modification papers and see if I can get a clue!
     
  7. Tony Hill

    Tony Hill Active Member

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    Ah, good, cheers Andy. Always happy to look from a slightly different view!! I can get fixed on an original idea if I am not careful!
     
  8. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    What's bugging me is, it's one of those things which have probably been seen many times in photos, but not really 'registered', and I feel sure that I've seen that bracket, and whatever was fitted to it, in photos before now, possibly even with a caption stating what it is !
    One thing which does spring to mind, and I'm probably way off course, is a bracket for the 'trigger' of the Coffman starter, fitted to the MkII.
     
  9. Tony Hill

    Tony Hill Active Member

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    Again Terry and All, thanks for the tireless suggestions and ideas.

    But no, alas, the Coffman pull ring is fitted on the Spitfire II where the Starting Mag is on the Spitfire I.

    :)
     
  10. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Ah, well - I'll keep thinking (my brain hurts) and looking !
     
  11. Tony Hill

    Tony Hill Active Member

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    :) :) :)
    #fu&&ingearlyspitfires :)
     
  12. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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  13. Tony Hill

    Tony Hill Active Member

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    Yep, haven't had SO much fun since Grandma died!!! :) :) :)
     
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  14. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    A little more on this, for what it's worth. After talking to a colleague at our museum, we are thinking that the so-called bracket to which those circular clamps are attached is actually the extension tube for the Slow Running Cut-out. After my colleague ID'd it, I did a Google search and found a discussion here in which Edgar Brooks states:

    "...... mod 118 "To reposition hole in frame 8 for slow-running cut-out introduced by Alt 43," and is dated 17-11-39,....."

    The Slow Running Cut-out shows up subsequently at this location:

    slow-running_ cut-out.jpg

    My colleague says that, for a time, the early prototypes did away with the Slow Running Cut-out and used the mag switches instead. This could explain the empty tube, the open end of which might at one time have had the pull ring.

    The clamps are still a mystery but I would suggest that whatever instrument they held may have had no relationship whatsoever with the tube other than that the tube was a convenient mounting point.
     
  15. Old Wizard

    Old Wizard Well-Known Member

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  16. Tony Hill

    Tony Hill Active Member

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    Unfortunately, I don't think so Andy... I have the original Alt 43 and it is very specific and includes a detailed drawing. The Slow running cutout was originally routed vey close to where the Mod 118 made it end up. I suspect the only difference was a slight change in position to adjust for the three way fuel primer cock being removed. I''ll scan 43 next time I am near my office,

    Regards and thanks
     
  17. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting to see Darryl as there is something confusing (are we surprised?) in the statements made by Edgar in the posts that I linked. In the first response he said:

    "......Modification 43 "To introduce slow running cut-out control" dates from 30-6-40"

    But he then went on to say:

    "Just to add a note of confusion to your first enquiry, I missed mod 118 "To reposition hole in frame 8 for slow-running cut-out introduced by Alt 43," and is dated 17-11-39, which hints at the cut-out having been introduced earlier than the date on the leaflet."

    I assume he is using "Modification 43" and "Alt 43" interchangeably. If so, the date of "mod 118" is EARLIER than Mod or Alt 43 and yet Mod 118 requires movement of the cut-out introduced by Alt 43.
     
  18. Tony Hill

    Tony Hill Active Member

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    Hi Andy,

    Yes. Alt 43, Mod 43 etc... slack language on my part but interchangible yes.

    And no, no surprise... was it Terry that said ^$££$^$$ early Spitfires?? :) :) :)
     
  19. fubar57

    fubar57 Well-Known Member

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  20. MiTasol

    MiTasol Active Member

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    #40 MiTasol, Dec 28, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
    Very interesting Fubar
    If you blow the first picture up it looks to me that the tube is physically mounted to the instrument panel and there is a hole in the panel to the left of the tube mount flange.

    Clipboard02.jpg

    Even more interesting is the third photo in that sequence that shows many changes in the area by P7508 but interestingly the slow running cut-out ring is now coming through the panel a little higher in the same area, rather than under the panel like on later aircraft.
    Maybe this position predates Mod 43 etc and the tube in the above photo predates that and is a remnant of the system deleted when they started using the mag switches to stop the engine. (Pity the Brits did not put the slow running/idle cut-off on the throttle quadrant like the Americans - too easy and/or too logical I guess, especially because it could be done with one hand instead of two)

    Clipboard03.jpg
     
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