Easiest Warbird to Fly?

FLYBOYJ · Oct 19, 2008

davparlr said:
I think I need a bit more info. As far as I know, there is only one cg point, which has three components, longitudinal (station line?), vertical (waterline?) and lateral, which every aircraft has. If you are saying that both the longitudinal and vertical cg components of the cg point must be closely maintained, I would understand, but I am confused about the two points.

Both the "horizontal" and "vertical" cg components had to be maintained - 2 CGs - Just like on some helicopters. Check out page 20A of the P-39Q flight manual.

Also with all this talk about the P-39 spinning, check out page 16, Paragraph 14, the first sentence!

kool kitty89 · Oct 19, 2008

The notes on spin recovery are interesting.

-Power off, Stick full back, then apply full opposite rudder and (once rudder effect is noticable) push stick full foreward and apply ailerons. (rudder must be initially applied when spin is slowest)

Is the "stick full back" step usual for spin recovery?

GrauGeist · Oct 19, 2008

kool kitty89 said:
The notes on spin recovery are interesting. Stick full back. Isn't it usually stick full foreward to recover from spins?

Perhaps the first guy to survive an episode in a '39 had the stick all the way back and that became the approved recovery method...

praying feverishly was optional....

FLYBOYJ · Oct 19, 2008

kool kitty89 said:
The notes on spin recovery are interesting.

-Power off, Stick full back, then apply full opposite rudder and (once rudder effect is noticable) push stick full foreward and apply ailerons. (rudder must be initially applied when spin is slowest)

Is the "stick full back" step usual for spin recovery?

Normally you would go opposite rudder and full forward on the stick so the spin "breaks." Bell probably established that procedure to ensure that you would have rudder effectiveness prior to breaking the spin.

The Basket · Oct 19, 2008

What were the training requirements for say the USAAC before they saw a front line fighter?

How many hours in what type?

Interesting that the P-40 was used as an advanced trainer but does this translate to say a P-47?

FLYBOYJ · Oct 20, 2008

The Basket said:
What were the training requirements for say the USAAC before they saw a front line fighter?

How many hours in what type?

Interesting that the P-40 was used as an advanced trainer but does this translate to say a P-47?

I think it depended on the need.

Here's an interesting story...

What did it take to be a WWII fighter pilot?

mkloby · Oct 20, 2008

kool kitty89 said:
The notes on spin recovery are interesting.

-Power off, Stick full back, then apply full opposite rudder and (once rudder effect is noticable) push stick full foreward and apply ailerons. (rudder must be initially applied when spin is slowest)

Is the "stick full back" step usual for spin recovery?

When I flew T-34C's the spin recovery procedure was full opposite rudder and stick slightly fwd... break spin then recover from nose low. Every aircraft is different though.

eddie_brunette · Oct 20, 2008

and I thought the '38 would be easy, because of props rotating outward and very little torque......

edd

Timppa · Oct 20, 2008

FLYBOYJ said:
Both the "horizontal" and "vertical" cg components had to be maintained - 2 CGs

More precisely the the cg range has to be within certain limits, in every aircraft. As the fuel and ammunitions is usually not at the cg, the exact cg location varies when the fuel and ammo is used. In case of P-39, the nose wheel (up or down) affects also, hence 2 cg's shown.
The P-39 nose gun ammunition , when used, had a noticeable effect on handling.

KrazyKraut · Oct 20, 2008

FLYBOYJ said:
Normally you would go opposite rudder and full forward on the stick so the spin "breaks." Bell probably established that procedure to ensure that you would have rudder effectiveness prior to breaking the spin.

That's interesting because most "manuals" on the net tell you to put the stick in neutral position. But maybe I'm confusing spin and stall here.

FLYBOYJ · Oct 20, 2008

Timppa said:
More precisely the the cg range has to be within certain limits, in every aircraft. As the fuel and ammunitions is usually not at the cg, the exact cg location varies when the fuel and ammo is used. In case of P-39, the nose wheel (up or down) affects also, hence 2 cg's shown.
The P-39 nose gun ammunition , when used, had a noticeable effect on handling.

Here's something interesting form Wiki...

Some World War II airplanes were notoriously prone to flat spins when loaded erroneously, such as the Bell P-39 Airacobra. The P-39 was a unique design with the engine behind the pilot's seat and a large cannon in the front. Without ammunition or a counterbalance load in the nose compartment, the P-39's center of gravity was too far aft to recover from a spin. Soviet pilots did numerous tests of the P-39 and were able to demonstrate its dangerous spinning characteristics. Bell then issued a recommendation to bail out if the airplane entered a spin. North American P-51 Mustangs with auxiliary fuel tanks not originally designed for the P-51 suffered from the same problem. Similarly, the Vought F4U Corsair was reputed to have appalling stall and spin recovery characteristics, even in the "clean" (no stores) configuration.

KrazyKraut said:
That's interesting because most "manuals" on the net tell you to put the stick in neutral position. But maybe I'm confusing spin and stall here.

You might be confusing spin and stall recovery, although every plane is a little different. Most planes I've flown that can be spun have you apply opposite rudder and bring the sick full foward to berak the spin, reducing engine power first. In a Cessna 152 the "break" is very pronounced when you come forward with the yoke. In a Cessna 172 its really hard to get the aircraft spin even with full power.

Soren · Oct 20, 2008

In my experience you usually recover from a spin by pushing the stick forward and applying full opposite rudder (compared to spin), like FLYBOYJ said.

kool kitty89 · Oct 20, 2008

It should be noted that, in the specific case of the Airacobra, these were Flat spinns, so that may be part of the reason for the different recovery method. (that and it apears that the spin was rather difficult to break, the manual emphasizing how important it was to apply rudder when the spin was slowest, being an ocillating spin)

If the amunition load had such a significant effect, you'd think the spin characteristics of the 20 mm armed versions would be worse. (D-1, P-400, and some D-2's; as the Hispano M1 + 60 rounds would weight ~1/2 that of the 37 mm M4 with 30 rounds)

davparlr · Oct 23, 2008

I've heard that the B-17 was an easy aircraft to fly. Of course, there was a flight engineer handy.

FLYBOYJ · Oct 23, 2008

davparlr said:
I've heard that the B-17 was an easy aircraft to fly. Of course, there was a flight engineer handy.

FEs always fly the aircraft - the pilots just steer!

B-17engineer · Oct 23, 2008

That's very true. They also take orders from the pilot to stop fuel flow etc. Say if an engine is damaged. and there feathering it

FLYBOYJ · Oct 23, 2008

B-17engineer said:
That's very true. They also take orders from the pilot to stop fuel flow etc. Say if an engine is damaged. and there feathering it

That was in WW2 - today the pilot "asks" the FE to do something....

kool kitty89 · Oct 23, 2008

Is the "braided chord" comment intentional, or is it a typo?

FLYBOYJ · Oct 24, 2008

intentional.....

B-17engineer · Oct 24, 2008

okay

Easiest Warbird to Fly?

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Attachments

Senior Master Sergeant

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Senior Master Sergeant

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Senior Master Sergeant

Senior Airman

Senior Airman

Banned

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

1st Lieutenant

Senior Master Sergeant

Senior Master Sergeant

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Colonel

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Attachments

Senior Master Sergeant

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Colonel

Users who are viewing this thread

Similar threads