eBay: Grumman Avenger

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tbf or tbm avengers in flight - from Saratoga

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WW2 original PHOTOS: TBF or TBM Avengers in Flight - from SARATOGA vet's estate | eBay

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Admiral Beez said:
Did the FAA ever use the Avenger in the torpedo role?
Click to expand...
AFAIK never.

Firstly, it couldn't carry British torpedoes. They were too long for the Avenger's bomb bay. The armoured carriers in the BPF seem to have been provided with US Mk.13 torpedoes just in case (Illustrious got 30 according to one source, which was a reduced number from her designed complement). But they were never used as the BPF never found a suitable target.

During Operation Dukedom, the Operation in the IO that ended up in the sinking of the IJN cruiser Haguro by destroyers of the 26th Flotilla in May 1945, no torpedoes seem to have been available for the aircraft of 851 squadron on the Shah, before they were transferred to the fighter carrier Emperor.

In Europe the only torpedo carried was the Mk.24 Mine nicknamed Fido. It was an acoustic homing torpedo designed as an anti submarine weapon. But it was short, being about half the length of the US Mk.13.

In mid-1945 the Admiralty issued instructions to the Barracuda squadrons of 11ACS en route to the Pacific to cease practising torpedo attacks and concentrate on dive bombing as that was seen as the main attack method in any continuing war against Japan.

Edit. Not being capable of diving steeply, also meant that the Avenger could not have used the TB attack tactics favoured by the RN and for which Swordfish, Albacore and Barracuda squadrons trained extensively.
 
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EwenS said:
AFAIK never.

Firstly, it couldn't carry British torpedoes. They were too long for the Avenger's bomb bay. The armoured carriers in the BPF seem to have been provided with US Mk.13 torpedows just in case (Illustrious got 30 according to one source, which was a reduced number from her designed complement). But they were never used as the BPF never found a suitable target.

During Operation Dukedom, the Operation in the IO that ended up in the sinking of the IJN cruiser Haguro by destroyers of the 26th Flotilla in May 1945, no torpedoes seem to have been available for the aircraft of 851 squadron on the Shah, before they were transferred to the fighter carrier Emperor.

In Europe the only torpedo carried was the Mk.24 Mine nicknamed Fido. It was an acoustic homing torpedo designed as an anti submarine weapon. But it was short, being about half the length of the US Mk.13.

In mid-1945 the Admiralty issued instructions to the Barracuda squadrons of 11ACS en route to the Pacific to cease practising torpedo attacks and concentrate on dive bombing as that was seen as the main attack method in any continuing war against Japan.

Edit. Not being capable of diving steeply, also meant that the Avenger could not have used the TB attack tactics favoured by the RN and for which Swordfish, Albacore and Barracuda squadrons trained extensively.
Click to expand...
Perhaps the FAA should have asked for the Helldiver, even with its handling issues, instead of the Avenger.
 
They did ask for the Helldiver as well as the Avenger.

Interest in it began in early 1941. By July 1942, 450 were recorded as being on order with deliveries due to start in March 1943. These were to come from Canadian production lines as SBW models.

But by the end of 1943 the US made it clear that they would only be supplying replacements for those aircraft already delivered as they were now prioritising the Pacific campaign for which they said they needed every Helldiver that could be produced. By Oct 1944 the RN gave up trying as they had met with the immovable Admiral King.

Ultimately the FAA received 26 SBW-1 and formed a single squadron, 1820, whose history is here:-

With no prospect of sufficient aircraft becoming available to form more squadrons the RN gave up on the Helldiver at the end of 1944.

While tests at the A&AEE found its handling generally acceptable, the comments by Eric Brown are what gets remembered. He was scathing about its handling and made statements to effect that it was never flown onto a British Carrier by an FAA pilot. A statement that, in light of 1820 squadron history, was clearly untrue.
 
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Last edited:
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