eBay: Lioré et Olivier LeO 451

[cammerjeff]

I read where some RAF Mustangs caught some of those in Luftwaffe markings in the South of France and shot them down. I wonder what the poor Luftwaffe pilots did to get assigned to those things.

I don't understand what you are saying, from what I understand the Luftwaffe used the captured Leo-451's mostly as fast transports, and possibly trainers. Are you suggesting that the pilots would be better off flying something lie a Ju-52? Vs a flight of Mustangs? IMO the Leo 451 was a good Aircraft type for 1940-41. But in 1943-44 not so much, but almost any twin engined bomber from 1939-40 would not fair any better in those conditions.

Just my opinion others may very.

 

[Snautzer01]

No transport aircraft can take on some RAF/USAAF/LUFTWAFFE fighter flyboys. No dc3 no dc4 no me323 no ju52 nothing.
in this case its not the plane but what it encountered. Poor guys had no chance when engaged.

Now after d-day i would hate to be in the sky with a balkenkreuz on it. As did the poor bastards that had too. Go see the luftwaffe losses on fighters and bombers.

 

[Snautzer01]

Nr 3003

Erbeutet!! Deutsche Soldaten der Luftwaffe vor einem erbeuteten Flugzeug.

www.oorlogsbronnen.nl

 

[Wurger]

 

[cammerjeff]

Nr 3003

View attachment 794855

Erbeutet!! Deutsche Soldaten der Luftwaffe vor einem erbeuteten Flugzeug.

www.oorlogsbronnen.nl

I think this is the same A/C that is in the original post (#1) of this thread, the N 3003 number still does not make sense to me, that number usually indicates it production number (or sequence number) of the type of A/C. As they made less than 700 LeO 451's in total, and the fact that this example has the early series vertical fins and rudders. It confuses me.
The walk way on the flap sure has seen alot of use!

 

[Bretoal2]

Nr 3003

View attachment 794855

Erbeutet!! Deutsche Soldaten der Luftwaffe vor einem erbeuteten Flugzeug.

www.oorlogsbronnen.nl

I think this is the same A/C that is in the original post (#1) of this thread, the N 3003 number still does not make sense to me, that number usually indicates it production number (or sequence number) of the type of A/C. As they made less than 700 LeO 451's in total, and the fact that this example has the early series vertical fins and rudders. It confuses me.
The walk way on the flap sure has seen alot of use!

Aircrafts with a serial number of 3000 and above were manufactured in Bouguenais (near Nantes) in the factory of the Société Nationale de Constructions Aéronautiques de l'Ouest. See on the fins: SNCAO.

The majority of the LeO 451a were manufactured by the Société Nationale de Constructions Aéronautiques du Sud-Est (SNCASE), in its factories in Velizy-Villacoublay, Ambérieu (near Lyon), and Marignane. For these, continuous numbering from 01 + 1 to 596, plus perhaps about 30 or 40 others misidentified - some authors says the last number is 636. For Bouguenais, nos. 3001 to 3046, plus some other ones misidentified, the real last number seems to be 3053.

The extended vertical surfaces were fitted (and retro-fitted) some monthes AFTER the Armistice. So all LeO 451 in may-june 1940 possessed the early fins and rudders.

 

[Snautzer01]

Iirc French aerospace came under goverment control and was split up in several divisions.

There for the need to make clear cuts in production series for same aircraft.

 

[cammerjeff]

OK I think I understand, SNCAO Built LeO 451's started with S/N 3001 so #3003 would have been the 3rd example delivered by SNCAO. Doing some research I found this Picture interesting, I did not know that some examples had two 7.5mm added to the dorsal mounted 20mm, and it also shows the retractable boarding step on the wing.

source https://www.gruppofalchi.com/files/...raft-173---Liore-Et-Olivier-Leo-45-Series.pdf

 

[Gnomey]

Good shots!

 

[Snautzer01]

front view damaged

Foto, abgeschossener Bomber, Flugzeug, TOP Aufnahme | eBay

Foto in ca. 10,5 x 7,5 cm. Zustand: Siehe Fotos.

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[Wurger]

 

[Snautzer01]

Frankreich Reims

D7273 Foto Frankreich Reims Flugplatz Französisches Flugzeug Kennung ID | eBay

Verkauft wird ein 100% Originales Foto!

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[Wurger]

 

[Bretoal2]

Frankreich Reims

View attachment 805984

View attachment 805985

D7273 Foto Frankreich Reims Flugplatz Französisches Flugzeug Kennung ID | eBay

Verkauft wird ein 100% Originales Foto!

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I read : Flugplatz Rennes.

And background buildings are OK for Rennes (Rennes Saint-Jacques) in 1940.

 

[Frog]

OK I think I understand, SNCAO Built LeO 451's started with S/N 3001 so #3003 would have been the 3rd example delivered by SNCAO. Doing some research I found this Picture interesting, I did not know that some examples had two 7.5mm added to the dorsal mounted 20mm, and it also shows the retractable boarding step on the wing.

View attachment 795056
source https://www.gruppofalchi.com/files/...raft-173---Liore-Et-Olivier-Leo-45-Series.pdf

Apparently, this 20 mm was effective as on june 6, 1940, two Me 110 were shot down with this gun.

 

[cammerjeff]

Apparently, this 20 mm was effective as on june 6, 1940, two Me 110 were shot down with this gun.

I am sure the 20mm was effective as long as the drum fed ammo held out, But they only held about 45-60 rounds, so that is just a few seconds of firing, The 2 added 7.5mm's would enable the gunner to keep on target longer without having to stop firing to swap the 20mm drum?

Like I said that picture was the 1st time I had seen the mod to add the two 7.5mm machine guns on this position, I have no idea if this was a common modification after the battle of France or if it was done to just a few A/C?

 

[Frog]

I am sure the 20mm was effective as long as the drum fed ammo held out, But they only held about 45-60 rounds, so that is just a few seconds of firing, The 2 added 7.5mm's would enable the gunner to keep on target longer without having to stop firing to swap the 20mm drum?

Like I said that picture was the 1st time I had seen the mod to add the two 7.5mm machine guns on this position, I have no idea if this was a common modification after the battle of France or if it was done to just a few A/C?

This modification with the two MAC 34 MGs was performed after march 1941.
By the way, the two Me 110s were shot down by the same gunner : Sergent Tranchem flying with groupe GB 1/11

 

[Snautzer01]

Same as #72 ?

Foto Flugzeug / Frankreich / Liore-et-Olivier LeO 45 / Militaria | eBay

Flugzeug:Lioré-et-Olivier LeO 45. Originales Foto.

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[Wurger]

 

[Gnomey]

Good shots!