eBay: North American B-25 Mitchell

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B-25D-30 Mitchell 43-3522 Hunkey Dory 12th Air Force, 57th Bombardment Wing 321st Bombardment Group

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L408 Frankreich 1944 ? USA US North American airforce Bomber B-25 Mitchell plane | eBay

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Note that B-25 had a locally manufactured tail gunner position, similar to in design but not recognizably different from the factory installed version in the B-25J and B-25H. Units in the Med used those, but retained the aft location upper turret. In the Squadron B-25 In Action book they show an aerial shot of B-25's equipped like that and speculate on what they are. My next door neighbor flew B-25's in the Med and told me about them. But that particular airplane had the guns removed so it probably was used as a hack transport; B-25's were very popular for that role since they were easy to fly and reliable. Gen Doolittle had a B-25 as his personal transport, although he had his modified with the collector ring exhausts to make it quieter inside.
 
French Marshall Leclerc de Hauteclocque died in a B-25 crash, november 28, 1947. The pilot had warned weather conditions were not good. Leclerc was a martinet. He ordered the flight to go on, and died with all the crew and passengers, 12 in all.
 
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MIflyer said:
Note that B-25 had a locally manufactured tail gunner position, similar to in design but not recognizably different from the factory installed version in the B-25J and B-25H. Units in the Med used those, but retained the aft location upper turret. In the Squadron B-25 In Action book they show an aerial shot of B-25's equipped like that and speculate on what they are. My next door neighbor flew B-25's in the Med and told me about them. But that particular airplane had the guns removed so it probably was used as a hack transport; B-25's were very popular for that role since they were easy to fly and reliable. Gen Doolittle had a B-25 as his personal transport, although he had his modified with the collector ring exhausts to make it quieter inside.
Click to expand...
No, this is not a field modification (locally manufactured). Blocks D-25, -30 and -35 had the tail gun and the waist gun stations (non-staggered) manufactured in the factory (Kansas City) resp. in the factory's own modification center. As you mentioned this particular a/c is a "Fat cat" and does not have any armament resp. the top turret (in the rear fuselage) has been deleted.
In the MTO there were several modifications (I've written about them) and they all had waist- and tail guns; the 2 most prominent being the Warner Robins Logistic Center's and the Sidi Ahmed Air Depot/Base - modifications. The differences between all these variants/mods are very prominent. It is possible that your neighbor was on one of the "real" MTO-mods, not on this type of hybrid-Mitchells (as known in Australia). In fact the most used modification was the one of Sidi Ahmed Air Depot/Base (over 300).
Even the great Norm Avery, who knows the B-25 better than anybody (probably), made a mistake in his book "The Magnificent Medium", page 35, calling those -30 or -35 blocks J-models. This is the photo showing actually the "hybrids" in production:
ca9mE1n.jpg

And here are the Mediterranean modifications for comparison:
1. This is a B-25D-30 (manufactured with all the changes):
nLLeOkW.jpg

2. This is the Warner Robins modification (note the big waist windows with bracing) - this is a B-25D (no block letter):
l7Va90l.jpg

3. This is the Sidi-Ahmed modification, copying the above one in field conditions (note smaller side windows without additional structure/bracing) - this is a B-25C-20:
n3HsQvJ.jpg

The tails of the latter differ slightly, but both have NO CANOPY over the gunner's position:
Warner Robins' tail:
MQcaqEd.jpg

Sidi Ahmed's tail:
93rT2OM.jpg

Cheers!
 
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The salesman at my last job (2002) commented to me that he had been a tail gunner. I asked what plane and he said, "B-25." I said, "Wasn't that a tight fit?"
His answer, "I wasn't always this big." Wartime was long past for him and I could never get any more info from him.
 
A photo from Fold3 I have since years gave me some food for thought:
wLpn9kf.jpg

These are airplanes on the airfield near Bari in October 1944. Most of them are transports (even a Soviet one) and I believe the B-25 in the foreground is a transport too, not a "Fat Cat", but a high ranking officer's transport maybe. Or maybe not.
X3aWW1n.jpg

It is a B-25C-15, s/n 42-32481 (could be 42-32491 though). The size of the waist windows tells us that this is a Sidi-Ahmed modification (see my post above). It's interesting how the field modified gunner's tail has been re-modified again, after adding the original tail cone to it. The waist windows appear to be covered as well. This could be an a/c from the 310-the BG. or the horizontal lines on both tails have a different meaning.
Cheers!
 
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Sometimes I'm surprised to find a photo of a B-25 in my archive, saved on a random drive or "flash" and forgotten there for years.
Here are 2 finds:
I. B-25C-10, s/n 42-32321 from the 445-th BS. 321-st BG.. This is a Sidi-Ahmed modification (check my post # 545) with fully armed waist- and tail-gunner's positions:
9rrWN2A.jpg

It's interesting to note the following:
1. National insignia with a red border - time frame for the photo is end of July-August-Sept. 1943
2. Freshly applied roman numeral I for the 445-th BS.
3. Red tops of the fins (marking for the whole 321-st BG.)
4. Previously overpainted areas of the deleted de-icing boots on the leading edges of the fins, with a lighter OD or other green tone. Probably the same for the wings.
5. This is an OD over NG camouflage. See how faded the OD tone is - the top turret has a darker area surrounding it where the turret-cover (tarpaulin) has been used.

II. A B-25 from the 321-st BG, serial unclear. This is the same Sidi-Ahmed type of modification as above. The a/c in the back is a Warner Robins - modification though:
q66VCIS.jpg

This a/c and the one in the background are in Sand over NG. The national insignia can have a red border - compare with the red tops of the fins or probably a freshly applied blue border, darker than the insignia blue of the disk with the white star (see wing insignia). This a/c has no roman numeral, compared to the one in the first photo. De-icing boots on the fins have been deleted and the areas overpainted. It's interesting to see that a relatively old a/c has no RAF fin-flashes , overpainted or not.
Both photos have been downloaded at some point (in the last 5-10 years) from the internet and are not copies from books. Unfortunately I don't know the exact source...
Cheers!
P.S. Later today I found another "hidden flash drive" (in fact the content of an old flash drive, copied 3-4 years ago on my main Archive-HD). I believe these are the same 2 a/c as seen above:
GmCQYxH.jpg

It seems to me the s/ns have been retouched (made invisible) on purpose. Note the white propeller domes on all a/c. I believe these "Mitchells" are from the 447-th BS.
 
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CATCH 22 said:
Sometimes I'm surprised to find a photo of a B-25 in my archive, saved on a random drive or "flash" and forgotten there for years.
Here are 2 finds:
I. B-25C-10, s/n 42-32321 from the 445-th BS. 321-st BG.. This is a Sidi-Ahmed modification (check my post # 545) with fully armed waist- and tail-gunner's positions:
View attachment 687031
It's interesting to note the following:
1. National insignia with a red border - time frame for the photo is August-Sept. 1943
2. Freshly applied roman numeral I for the 445-th BS.
3. Red tops of the fins (marking for the whole 321-st BG.)
4. Previously overpainted areas with a lighter OD or other green of the deleted de-icing boots on the leading edges of the fins. Probably the same for the wings.
5. This is an OD over NG camouflage. See how faded the OD tone is - the top turret has a darker area surrounding it where the turret-cover (tarpaulin) has been used.

II. A B-25 from the 321-st BG, serial unclear. This is the same Sidi-Ahmed type of modification as above. The a/c in the rear is a Warner Robins - modification though:
View attachment 687032
This a/c and the one in the background are in Sand over NG. The national insignia can have a red border - compare with the red tops of the fins or probably a freshly applied blue border, darker than the insignia blue of the disk with the white star (see wing insignia). This a/c has no roman numeral, compared to the one on the first photo. De-icing boots on the fins have been deleted and the areas overpainted. It's interesting to see that a relatively old a/c has no RAF fin-flashes , overpainted or not.
Both photos have been downloaded at some point (in the last 5-10 years) from the internet and are not copies form books. Unfortunately I don't know the exact source...
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Great bit of sleuthing. I enjoy these aviation detective stories.
 
Snautzer01 said:
13th Air Force B-25 Low Level Skip Bombing Practice - New Caledonia 1943
Click to expand...
Note that the "Mitchell"s above are early modified strafers with 4 guns in the nose.
And here is a photo showing the same 42-nd BG. skip-bombing training from a different perspective:
42nd-bg-skip-bomb-practice-new-caledonia0451.jpg

For all interested The "Crusaders" - a History of the 42-nd BG. is free for download here.
Cheers!
 
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