eBay: North American P-51 Mustang
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Navalwarrior
Staff Sergeant
- 764
- Jun 17, 2018
Resp:
In the '80s I worked for a guy who had just finished flight training in jets (T-33) when the Korean War kicked off. The USAAF asked for volunteers to 'retro' train to fly F-51 Mustangs, so he volunteered. However, once he finished piston engine training the Air Force sent him to train in F-86s. By this time nearly a year had passed before he was assigned to the 336 Squ of the 4th FG in Korea.
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Snautzer01
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Navalwarrior
Staff Sergeant
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- Jun 17, 2018
Resp:
Enroute to CBI Theater? Or are they F-6B Mustangs headed to ETO? Think any are Mustangs MKIIs for RAF?
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fubar57
General
Served only in the Pacific
EDIT: can't edit using iPhone. Is this common or just me?
EDIT: can't edit using iPhone. Is this common or just me?
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Snautzer01
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Next to the report function 3 dots press that .
Navalwarrior
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- Jun 17, 2018
Wish we had the month and year of the photo. No P-51As went to the PTO, so either went to the 1st Air Commando Unit or the Flying Tigers. Either was CBI.
If these Allison engined Mustangs were enroute to the 1st Air Commando Unit, then most of them were well used by training units in and around Florida. In other words, they were not new fighters. Since all USAAF units stationed around the world were 'screaming' for new replacement aircraft, an Air Commando Officer visited various air training units to scrounge up fighters. Keep in mind that these Mustangs (poss one A-36), although used/dated, were in excellent condition, as they were well maintained in the US. The P-51A, F-6B and A-36A were the first Mustangs to have wing pylons for drop tanks/bombs . . . which enabled them to provide ground support to The Chindits.
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fubar57
General
Caption for the photo.....
"Escort carrier USS Altamaha transporting a deck load of P-51A Mustang fighters has just left Alameda, passed under the San Francisco Bay Bridge (background) and steams toward the Golden Gate, 16 Jul 1943"
"Escort carrier USS Altamaha transporting a deck load of P-51A Mustang fighters has just left Alameda, passed under the San Francisco Bay Bridge (background) and steams toward the Golden Gate, 16 Jul 1943"
fubar57
General
Three more photos from the same date...Escort Carrier Photo Index: USS ALTAMAHA (ACV-18)
fubar57
General
Here it says "Throughout 1943, the ship was sent on many voyages to replenish men and aircraft to the carrier fleet throughout the Pacific. She also made one delivery voyage of American planes to India. After a brief overhaul in October, the carrier was back in action ferrying cargo and supplies." USS ALTAMAHA (CVE-18) Deployments & History
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Navalwarrior
Staff Sergeant
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- Jun 17, 2018
Resp:
Thanks! July 1943 maybe too early for the 1st Air Commandos. I will check. Maybe destined for the Flying Tigers.
fubar57
General
In the book, "Air Commando Fighters of World War II",
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Snautzer01
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Navalwarrior
Staff Sergeant
- 764
- Jun 17, 2018
Resp:
Well, this info makes sense. I suspect that these P-51As Were not 'packaged' for overseas shipment by NAA, since these Mustangs were already in USAAF service (acquired from southern training bases in and around Florida).
The P-51A/Mustang Mk.II aircraft destined for the RAF were prepared and shipped using the same basic process as had been used since the Mustang Mk.I purchase. Aircraft were broken down into major components, protective coverings and packing put in place, then placed as a complete aircraft 'package' into a custom built wooden container that was further weather/waterproofed for protection during shipping. This was done by NAA at the factory in California. They were then shipped by rail to their port of departure. In some cases this involved shipping from a west coast USA port to a east coast port via the Panama Canal, others shipped directly by rail to port of departure on east coast. The RAF Mustang Mk.II were distributed across a number of ships that were part of four convoys - two from Halifax and two from New York, that sailed over the period 7-27 June 1943, arriving in Liverpool over the period 21 June to 11 July 1943. First of them are recorded at Lockheed Speke for uncrating and reassembly 28 June 1943.
Navalwarrior
Staff Sergeant
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- Jun 17, 2018
Resp:
Thanks. However the shipment of P-51As aboard the Altamaha did not come from the NAA factory, as these Allison engine Mustangs were 'rounded up' at various USAAF training bases in and near Florida. A very high ranking General approved their acquisition. So it is doubtful that they were shipped to NAA (had their hands full) before being loaded aboard the Altamaha. Just not sure who weather proofed them before they were shipped.
Responding to this part of your earlier post. As the way they were shipped for the RAF was not via deck cargo on escort carriers.
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Navalwarrior
Staff Sergeant
- 764
- Jun 17, 2018
Resp:
Boxed and assembled once they reach England?
Yes, they were boxed for shipping and then re-assembled upon arrival in the UK at Lockheeds at Speke. The E&M Manuals for the P-51 and P-51A both included the aircraft breakdown for preparation for shipping and the basic dimensions and requirements for the construction of crate and cradles. Basically wing removed from fuselage, tail group removed, propeller removed, ancilliaries and GFE packed in boxes, main airframe components wrapped in a protective coating and placed into frames screwed/bolted into base of shipping box, then sides, roof and ends of shipping crate added. There are some photos in the Boeing Archive of Mustang Mk.II FR912 being prepped for shipping and partially crated - what's more they are period colour photos - one of them comes up in the online archive search using "Mustang" . There are earlier b&w photos around of Mustang Mk.I and Mk.IA being prepped and crated at NAA and uncrated at Speke. In the case of the Mustang Mk.IIs for the RAF, after initial reassembly at Lockheeds Speke, they sat around for some time before being sent to a RAF Maintenance Unit where they were fully prepared and brought up to latest required modification level for RAF service, which included stripping back to bare metal and repainting in standard RAF day fighter scheme with current national marking scheme, plus fitting RAF required equipment eg camera mounts, RAF radios and IFF, RAF required modifications to engine controls and engines - 'de-rating' modifications to supercharger impellor to improve performance below 10,000ft. Depending on availability of Malcolm Hood conversion kits, some were modified with Malcolm Hoods at this stage, otherwise converted later when airframes went in for major servicing or if held at a Group Support Unit, before issue to an operational Squadron.
Navalwarrior
Staff Sergeant
- 764
- Jun 17, 2018
Resp:
Thanks much. One area that has contributed to Mustang Mark confusion (from b/w and color photos) is seeing camofaged Mustangs Mk I models with red dotted USA roundels. This was before the the USA was at war. I can only surmise that North American Aviation painted US insignias on RAF Allison engined Mustangs to keep both spies and American anti war involvement critics at bay. It was my understanding that RAF markings were painted over the US roundels once they were reassembled in England. But I have seen nothing in print to support this thinking.
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