eBay: North American P-51 Mustang

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Elvis said:
That's a -51A...I wonder if its not actually an A-36, or maybe a pre-cursor.
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It is a Mustang Mk.I. It is not a P-51A.

There were two variants of the Mustang Mk.I produced by NAA - NA-73, 320 aircraft with RAF Serials in AG series; NA-83, 300 aircraft with RAF Serials in the AL, AM & AP series. These are not P-51s as they pre-date the first variant of the NAA Mustang to carry the designation. These were bought directly and paid for by the UK Government. Mixed HMG and MG armament, moveable/variable front radiator intake ramp. Built for and used operationally in ETO by RAF.

Then there were 150 NA-91, which was the first to carry the P-51 designation as they were to be provided to the UK under Lend Lease. This was the P-51 (no suffix) Mustang in US service and the Mustang Mk.IA in RAF service with RAF Serials in the FD range. 92 delivered to RAF, 58 retained by USAAF. This was the variant with the 4 x 20mm cannon armament. Moveable/variable front radiator intake ramp.

Then the NA-97 A-36A Mustang. 500 ordered and built. HMG armament, first version with fixed radiator intake ramp, dive brakes and underwing hardpoints.

Then the NA-99 P-51A Mustang. 310 built. 50 delivered to RAF in part replacement for P-51/Mustang Mk.IA not delivered. Mustang Mk.II in RAF service, with RAF Serials in FR range. HMG armament, NO dive brakes, fixed radiator intake ramp and underwing hardpoints.
 
...and I stand corrected.
Sorry for the mis-ID ColFord.
I was going off the shape of the cowling, which I've noticed is different with the P51a, compared to the b,c,d and all the rest that came after.
I had no idea there were that many "pre-51" models that we sent to Britain.
So, according to your information, the Mustang in the picture is an NA-83. Correct?
 
Elvis said:
...and I stand corrected.
Sorry for the mis-ID ColFord.
I was going off the shape of the cowling, which I've noticed is different with the P51a, compared to the b,c,d and all the rest that came after.
I had no idea there were that many "pre-51" models that we sent to Britain.
So, according to your information, the Mustang in the picture is an NA-83. Correct?
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The basic shape and configuration of the cowling on the early Mustangs, that is Mustang Mk.I thru to P-51A, was basically similar and largely dictated by the Allison V-1710 engine fitted that had the carburettor air intake above the nose as the Allison was fitted with a down draft carburettor. The shape of the carburettor air intake on top of the nose of the Mustang Mk.I and P-51/Mustang Mk.IA when viewed from above was a bit more straight sided and 'slim', whilst that on the A-36A and P-51A was a bit broader at the front to accommodate additional intake air filtering capability and then tapered back towards the rear of the cowling.

The later Merlin engine Mustangs P-51B and onwards, had the carburettor air intake below the nose, the "smile" just behind the propellor spinner, as the Merlin s fitted had an updraft carburettor fitted.

The Mustang in the posted photo, AP247 was one of the second batch of Mustang Mk.I produced and paid for by the UK Government and is a NA-83 - basically an NA-73 with a number of refinements and improvements added on the production line as a result of the early trials and use of the NA-73 by the RAF.
 
ColFord said:
The basic shape and configuration of the cowling on the early Mustangs, that is Mustang Mk.I thru to P-51A, was basically similar and largely dictated by the Allison V-1710 engine fitted that had the carburettor air intake above the nose as the Allison was fitted with a down draft carburettor. The shape of the carburettor air intake on top of the nose of the Mustang Mk.I and P-51/Mustang Mk.IA when viewed from above was a bit more straight sided and 'slim', whilst that on the A-36A and P-51A was a bit broader at the front to accommodate additional intake air filtering capability and then tapered back towards the rear of the cowling.

The later Merlin engine Mustangs P-51B and onwards, had the carburettor air intake below the nose, the "smile" just behind the propellor spinner, as the Merlin s fitted had an updraft carburettor fitted.

The Mustang in the posted photo, AP247 was one of the second batch of Mustang Mk.I produced and paid for by the UK Government and is a NA-83 - basically an NA-73 with a number of refinements and improvements added on the production line as a result of the early trials and use of the NA-73 by the RAF.
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Yes, the air intake was one clue, but have you ever noticed the underside of the cowling and the front of it?
Only on those early examples (which I associate with the P-51A, because I always thought that was the initial model), do we see an "extension" at the front of the cowling.
A sort of "flange", if you will.
It gives the shape of the underside of the cowling a bit of a goose-neck appearance.
Not sure why it's there and it doesn't appear on anything past the -51A, but it's one of the first things I look at, whenever I see that plane.
Also, the top slopes down a bit as you move towards the front of the cowling. It's flatter on later versions, due to the change over to the Merlin engine.
 
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Even the U.S. Army 8th Airforce honoured the Queen. Back then she was still the Princess.

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It's the photo-recon camera, angled to the rear and down, behind a "blanked-off" rear window. The aircraft were used for low-level, oblique tactical recon work.
When some P-51B/C models were used for the same purpose ( and some later Allison-engined aircraft), the clear window was retained, with an oval hole cut into it, to allow an unobstructed and distortion-free view for the camera lens.
 
Airframes said:
It's the photo-recon camera, angled to the rear and down, behind a "blanked-off" rear window. The aircraft were used for low-level, oblique tactical recon work.
When some P-51B/C models were used for the same purpose ( and some later Allison-engined aircraft), the clear window was retained, with an oval hole cut into it, to allow an unobstructed and distortion-free view for the camera lens.
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Thank you for your concise explanation. Much appreciated.
TBH, I was thinking someone might joke that it was the gas cap. 😁
 
One of a number of photos of North American NA-83 Mustang I AM148 of No.26 Squadron Royal Air Force in August 1942. Aircraft was operating out of RAF Gatwick and did a air to air photo session with an official photographer with a number of the photos being used in an edition of Flight Magazine in the UK in late 1942. In some of the photos from the air to air session, the horizontal tail surfaces of the photo aircraft can be seen and from the shape was most likely a Westland Lysander - also on strength with No.26 Squadron at the time.

The photo shows the early version of the oblique reconnaissance camera installation developed by the RAF for the Mustang I. It featured the replacement of the perspex clear quarter panel behind the cockpit with a metal replacement that had a funnel or cone shaped area back to where the camera lens would be mounted. The camera lens was then supposed to sit inside a rubber sealing gland to prevent ingress of water and to seal against incoming airflow. As it was, the initial internal camera mount combined with the 'rigid locking' of the lens into the rubber seal in the quarter panel led to airframe vibration being transmitted to the camera, blurring the photos. Also the sealing was too effective, such that in certain maneuvers a low pressure area would build up near the quarter panel and also set up a vibration and in some instance 'suck' the panel off - often with resultant damage to the camera lens as the panel departed the aircraft (and a bit of a scare for pilot as the panel departed). Pilots also didn't like the solid panel as it reduced their rear visibility in that quarter. As an interim fix, removing the rubber sealing gland fitted to the metal panel, so that the lens was not held so rigidly provided some improvement to the quality of photos obtained. Changing to an internal mount that was simpified, less rigid - mounted on rubber isolation bushings - and with the simple expedient of cutting a lens sized hole in the perspex quarter window that allowed the camera lens to protrude thru the cut-out without touching or being supported, worked much better.

NOTE: The photo is part of the sell off of a large collection of aviation photographs from various collections that are in the archives of Wingleader Publications of the UK. For those interested in other photos of early RAF Mustangs, the Wingleader online magazine, Issue Number 6 included a 15 page spread of photos regarding RAF Allison engine Mustangs. You can find and download PDF copies of the WIngleader magazines here: Wingleader Magazine
 
AM981 170 sqr shot down 22-7-1943 French cost Pilot F/sgt Boon age 21. Photo taken 20-06-1943

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WW2 - RAF MUSTANG PHOTO 1943 | eBay

22 July 1943 over the. MUSTANG AM981. This b& original photo 125 x125mm was found in a photo album of Flt/Sgt Bill Allen. Photo taken from Anson A/C. 170 Squadron. Pilot F/Sgt Boon, 21.
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Snautzer01 said:
AM981 170 sqr shot down 22-7-1943 French cost Pilot F/sgt Boon age 21. Photo taken 20-06-1943
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Interesting photo, but the source has the aircraft serial wrong and other details wrong.

It is North American NA-83 Mustang I AL981.

No.170 Squadron RAF Operational Record Book indicates that on 20 June 1943 Squadron aircraft were engaging in training flights, Bomber Co-operation carried out in the Newmarket area.

AL981 was lost on 26 July 1943 when being flown by Flying Officer J D Dunne as one of a pair of Mustangs conducting a 'Popular' in the Les Sept Iles area, the other aircraft of the pair Mustang I AM133 flown by Flight Lieutenant M Lissner returned safely. F/O Dunne listed as "Missing" and is recorded on the Runnymede RAF Memorial.

F/SGT P C Boon is recorded as still flying operationally with No.170 Squadron up until the end of December 1943, flying a number of operational sorties. At end of December 1943 No.170 Squadron was disbanded and its personnel and aircraft were moved to other RAF Tac/R Mustang Squadrons, including No.II(AC), 63, 168 and 268 Squadrons, but his name does not show up in any of their ORBs arriving on posting Squadron. Also name does not show up in the records for any of the other associated units in the 2TAF Recce Wings. He may have been posted to either a training role or another unit outside the Tac/R and Recce role.

There is also no record for P C Boon in Commonwealth War Grave Commission lists of those killed during WW2.
 
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