Eduard 1/48 Bf-110C
- Thread starter Crimea_River
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Yep, that's the one Andy. Notice the bottom weapon is darker, but still wood covered. This could be time of manufacture, when better quality timber was used on earlier weapons, and was oiled more, giving the darker appearance. With ageing, it goes darker still - a bit like early and late KAR98K's.
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- #243
Crimea_River
Marshal
Do you know if/when the wood was switched out for metal? Gut's post said 'early' MG15s had this feature.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Since learning about it a few months ago, I did a bit of checking. The metal was always there anyway, being the structure of the weapon, with the 'sleeve' just slid over the top. I used to have unlimited access to an armoury literally full of weapons from ww1 to present, including a MG15 for ground use, with a water cooled barrel jacket, which had a steel butt, so no sleeve, and another, from (we think) a Ju88, which was date stamped as 1943 on the original inspection tag still attached to the weapon. This was hanging on a wall, and i hadn't realised it also had the wooden sleeve, as the timber had darkened to virtually black.
I've looked at quite a few B&W pics over the last couple of months and, although it's not possible to be absolutely certain, it seems that all of the aircraft-mounted weapons had the sleeve which, as I mentioned, was a protective measure to prevent scorching of the gunner's hands . I've even tried to ascertain if the weapons mounted on the CASA 'Heinkels' in the BoB movie have the sleeve, bearing in mind these were post-war, but haven't determined that yet!
I think it's a fairly safe bet that where a Bf110 mounted a MG15, it would have the sleeve. When the MG81 zwilling was mounted, for example on the Bf110G, then that was 'controlled' by the single, central pistol grip/trigger, and a 'butt cap', with rectangular receivers, and therefore no sleeve, or requirement for one.
I've looked at quite a few B&W pics over the last couple of months and, although it's not possible to be absolutely certain, it seems that all of the aircraft-mounted weapons had the sleeve which, as I mentioned, was a protective measure to prevent scorching of the gunner's hands . I've even tried to ascertain if the weapons mounted on the CASA 'Heinkels' in the BoB movie have the sleeve, bearing in mind these were post-war, but haven't determined that yet!
I think it's a fairly safe bet that where a Bf110 mounted a MG15, it would have the sleeve. When the MG81 zwilling was mounted, for example on the Bf110G, then that was 'controlled' by the single, central pistol grip/trigger, and a 'butt cap', with rectangular receivers, and therefore no sleeve, or requirement for one.
Tony Hill
Tech Sergeant
Absolutely fantastic work mate!
zaxos345
Senior Airman
Trully amazing built Andy, models like that made me jealous and gave me a push to start modelling. By the this is the winter camo, am i right?
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Haven't looked in here for a while Andy not enough hours in the day. You've done a fabulous job mate, well done.
- Thread starter
- #248
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks Darry, John, Vic.
John, yes the model represents a very faded winter camo. See the reference picture on page 1 of this thread for the plane I'm replicating.
Terry, I found this additional pic on the web showing a close-up of a dissassembled MG15 receiver. This one could be wood but I could be swayed if someone told me it was bakelite or something like that. Either way, it is definitely a browny colour.
Here's what the finished gun looks like using the reference picture from Guttorm's Ju-88 thread. I may yet darken the shroud a bit. The sharp eyed among you will note that I added a bolt made of stretched sprue (sticking out the right hand side of the receiver) and that I drilled out the trigger.
Next is the finished repair area which is as good as it's going to get. I sanded down the lens and leading edge, added a few rivets and panel lines, and repainted the area. Still not too happy with how the home made grille turned out in the air intake. Pain in the a$$ that was, gluing individual lenths of sprue into a hole about 3mm square.
On to the final assembly of fiddly bits and antenna wire then this one will be done.
John, yes the model represents a very faded winter camo. See the reference picture on page 1 of this thread for the plane I'm replicating.
Terry, I found this additional pic on the web showing a close-up of a dissassembled MG15 receiver. This one could be wood but I could be swayed if someone told me it was bakelite or something like that. Either way, it is definitely a browny colour.
Here's what the finished gun looks like using the reference picture from Guttorm's Ju-88 thread. I may yet darken the shroud a bit. The sharp eyed among you will note that I added a bolt made of stretched sprue (sticking out the right hand side of the receiver) and that I drilled out the trigger.
Next is the finished repair area which is as good as it's going to get. I sanded down the lens and leading edge, added a few rivets and panel lines, and repainted the area. Still not too happy with how the home made grille turned out in the air intake. Pain in the a$$ that was, gluing individual lenths of sprue into a hole about 3mm square.
On to the final assembly of fiddly bits and antenna wire then this one will be done.
love the mg Andy
- Thread starter
- #250
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks Karl.
Tony Hill
Tech Sergeant
Looking great, FWIW my money is on walnut for that grip.
- Thread starter
- #252
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks Darryl. The earlier pics from Guttorm's thread show a much lighter wood than I would expect walnut to look like.
Tony Hill
Tech Sergeant
Yes, you can open a whole can of worms talking to "experts" about the "real" colour of German Stocks!! I can only reference the few K98 and 84/98 Bayonets I have, the older ones (S84/98 ) have a walnut grip that is almost blonde, the WW2 K98 tend to be a more "redish" wood, much like you have painted your stocks. The Walnut in K98 rifles appears mostly as a very red/dark brown.
As to oiling, polishing or other treatments, that is a whole 'nother 40 posts of abuse back and froward between the "experten". Safe to say that there is WIDE variation.
The redish bakelite grips on WW2 K98 bayonets are the colour of the grips in your photo BUT are "solid' colour rather than the variable colour in your picture.
The "mottled" bakelite grips tend to be much darker..almost black.
If you like I can take some photos tonight of differing walnut colours?
But I would say your colouring is perfect for a new weapon or a carefully maintained one, one where the owner lightly polishes it rather than drowning it in oil of some kind.
They DO look nice!!!
Oh, and 3mm strips of sprue for a grill.......TOO much time on your hands mate..you must need a hobby
As to oiling, polishing or other treatments, that is a whole 'nother 40 posts of abuse back and froward between the "experten". Safe to say that there is WIDE variation.
The redish bakelite grips on WW2 K98 bayonets are the colour of the grips in your photo BUT are "solid' colour rather than the variable colour in your picture.
The "mottled" bakelite grips tend to be much darker..almost black.
If you like I can take some photos tonight of differing walnut colours?
But I would say your colouring is perfect for a new weapon or a carefully maintained one, one where the owner lightly polishes it rather than drowning it in oil of some kind.
They DO look nice!!!
Oh, and 3mm strips of sprue for a grill.......TOO much time on your hands mate..you must need a hobby
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- Thread starter
- #254
Crimea_River
Marshal
Cheers Darryl. Great info. It had actually occurred to me to darken the grips and receiver a bit and I think I will. It does look a bit too much like a museum piece rather than something that's been through a Russian winter.
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Wow Andy that's some detailed little shooter you've put together and as for the intake grill, 3mm thats about the size of my finest tweezers. Well made mate.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Nice work Andy, the MG15 looks the biz!
Darryl is correct - earlier German weapons (pre 1941) tended to use Walnut, especially the Kar98K, and where Bakelite was used, it tended to look a uniform, very dark colour. Later, Walnut was replaced by, generally, Beech, which, apart from being much lighter in colour (like your model MG), was easier to 'work' for mass production. Later still, some weapons (infantry) were made using very inferior timbers and laminates, which not only serioulsy affected accuracy (in rifles) due to movement of the barrel, but also started to de-laminate after prolonged use in the field!
The stripped MG15 in ther pic you posted appears to have a Walnut pistol grip, but the reciever might be lacking the sleeve, with the 'brown' appearnce being wear of the Parkerised finish, very common on many weapons. Always makes me giggle when model instruction sheets direct you to painting weapons 'gun metal'! I've been involved as a firearms instructor, one way or the other, since 1970, and have seen very few 'gun metal' - coloured weapons!!
Darryl is correct - earlier German weapons (pre 1941) tended to use Walnut, especially the Kar98K, and where Bakelite was used, it tended to look a uniform, very dark colour. Later, Walnut was replaced by, generally, Beech, which, apart from being much lighter in colour (like your model MG), was easier to 'work' for mass production. Later still, some weapons (infantry) were made using very inferior timbers and laminates, which not only serioulsy affected accuracy (in rifles) due to movement of the barrel, but also started to de-laminate after prolonged use in the field!
The stripped MG15 in ther pic you posted appears to have a Walnut pistol grip, but the reciever might be lacking the sleeve, with the 'brown' appearnce being wear of the Parkerised finish, very common on many weapons. Always makes me giggle when model instruction sheets direct you to painting weapons 'gun metal'! I've been involved as a firearms instructor, one way or the other, since 1970, and have seen very few 'gun metal' - coloured weapons!!
- Thread starter
- #257
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks Terry. A darker brown is now drying on my little MG as we speak. All the fiddly bits going on now. Hope to finish this weekend and get on with my CF-5 butchery. BTW, your post hasn't arrived yet. The customs goons are probably still sniffing it, trying to determine whether the package has a hint of Guinness, Boddingtons, Lagavulin or all 3.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Ah, you know Boddington's!! Could be due to last weekend being a Public Holiday (Monday). It normally takes about 7 days to the 'States and Canada, although I've known it be quicker. Best yet was some stuff sent to Wayne in Oz - four days including a weekend!!!
- Thread starter
- #259
Crimea_River
Marshal
I'm sure you're right. We had a holdiay Monday here as well. Seems we're still tied to Queen Victoria in some ways.
Looking good Andy, on the home stretch now!
