Factory defence

[Just Schmidt]

I think you may be confusing the factory protection flight with the few He 100's used for that purpose.

This got me asking a question I should have asked myself 40 years ago, as I was at that time not a member here. The first example I encountered was the Fw 187.

How did it work? From context it seems that die Luftwaffe was not involved, but come to that I have never seen an actual example quoted. Did whatever test pilot jump into the seat of the Fighter that sat fueled and armed on the runway when the sirens stated blaring? Did potential targets get an advanced warning from the official system, being expected to take any precautions they thought fit? Or was the non operative fighters in some way known to the luftflotten?

Was it only a thing in the early years of the war?

I know that the VVS had factory defence units, but that seems to be very much part of the official defence structures.

 

[tomo pauk]

This got me asking a question I should have asked myself 40 years ago, as I was at that time not a member here. The first example I encountered was the Fw 187.

How did it work? From context it seems that die Luftwaffe was not involved, but come to that I have never seen an actual example quoted. Did whatever test pilot jump into the seat of the Fighter that sat fueled and armed on the runway when the sirens stated blaring? Did potential targets get an advanced warning from the official system, being expected to take any precautions they thought fit? Or was the non operative fighters in some way known to the luftflotten?

One wonders how much of the 'Fw 187 was a factory-defense fighter' was actually the truth.

 

[ThomasP]

The Japanese stood-up a number of squadrons (often understrength) after the bombing campaign of the mainland started, said squadrons specifically being assigned in some cases to defend specific manufacturing works. Some of the squadrons operated from the aircraft manufacturing company's airfields. I have read of this occurring at the Mitsubishi, Kawasaki and Nakajima aircraft manufacturing complexes via the biographical accounts of some of the pilots.

 

[cammerjeff]

This got me asking a question I should have asked myself 40 years ago, as I was at that time not a member here. The first example I encountered was the Fw 187.

How did it work? From context it seems that die Luftwaffe was not involved, but come to that I have never seen an actual example quoted. Did whatever test pilot jump into the seat of the Fighter that sat fueled and armed on the runway when the sirens stated blaring? Did potential targets get an advanced warning from the official system, being expected to take any precautions they thought fit? Or was the non operative fighters in some way known to the luftflotten?

Was it only a thing in the early years of the war?

I know that the VVS had factory defence units, but that seems to be very much part of the official defence structures.

I have wondered that myself, I can only assume like you that a few fighters were kept armed and fueled and that what ever factory test pilots were available were expected to take off in them when ever the alarm ( what ever that was ) was sounded. I can't imagine that it continued much past 1941 if that long. Once radar guided defense zones were set up, can you imagine the chaos that a few unidentified fast moving aircraft that suddenly appear in the defense zone? With Pilots that if they answer radio calls may not conform to the Military standards in use at the time? In aircraft that are not of a type normally flown by the defenders?
Just sounds like the set up of Blue on Blue incidents in my mind.

 

[MIflyer]

Well, I guess if you have prototype aircraft that are not selected for full rate production you can't very well ship them out to the operational units given the lack of spares and training. So you may as well use them for something, given that they pretty much have to operate at the factory and no where else. Northrop entered a Piaggio aircraft in the competition that was won by the Aero Commander twin and the two prototypes were retained at the factory at Hawthorne Airport for use as short range transports, mainly between the factory and Edwards/Palmdale. They served in that role for over 20 years and were still flying over, emitting their distinctive sound, when I got to LA in 1978.

Postwar it became common for NACA/NASA to acquire prototype aircraft for use as test vehicles and even chase aircraft.

In contrast, the US Army shipped the 13 prototype YL-15 aircraft to AK after the design did not win the L-19 competition. But I guess light aircraft are a bit different.

 

[Snautzer01]

The Industrieschutzstaffel was not a typical air unit. The pilots were the "Einflieger" or Testpilots of the Messerschmitt factory, who had to take off in case of an attack.
Some of the pilots were from the Luftwaffe, seconded to Messerschmitt, some of them were civil employes of Messerschmitt.


Messerschmitt Testpilot Fw. Heinz Lohmann took off on 17.8.1943 in Me 109 G-6 "+3" at 12.31 and landed at 13.27 at Obertraubling. He recorded contact with five waves of B-17's.
That same day he flew Me 109 WNr. 160305 and 160293 for an acceptance flight in the morning, before the attack.

Source: Log Book of Fw. Heinz Lohmann


Industrieschutz-Schwärme (ISSchw).
In JFV 10/III are listed the industrial protection units of 1943:
ISSt Focke-Wulf Bremen (formed Oct 1942)
ISSchw Focke-Wulf Sorau (formed Nov 1943)
ISSchw Focke-Wulf Marienburg (formed Oct 1943)
ISSchw Arado Tutow (formed Oct 1943)
ISSchw Messerschmitt Augsburg (formed summer 1943)
ISSt Messerschmitt Regensburg (formed 13 Jan 1943)
ISSchw Fieseler Kassel (formed July 1943)
ISSchw AGO Oschersleben (formed autumn 1943)
ISSt Wiener Neustädter Flugzeugwerke WNF (formed April 1943)
ISSchw Anklam/Flugzeugschleuse Luftflotte 6 (formed Autumn 1943)
ISSchw Insterburg/Flugzeugschleuse Luftflotte 1 (formed autumn 1943)
ISSchw Aspern/Flugzeugschleuse Luftflotte 4 (formned autumn 1943)
ISSchw Neumünster/Bf 109 Reparaturwerk (formed autumn 1943).
Besides existed the Einsatzstaffel/Jagdstaffel Erla Leipzig (formed Dec 1943) and the Alarmstaffel Erla Antwerpen (formed May 1943).

The industrial protection units were disbanded in spring 1944 because of the Allied air-superiority.

Details in
JFV 5/I (Werkschutzstaffeln in 1939/40)
JFV 10/III (Industrieschutzverbände 1943)
Jet & Prop 2/2006 (article "Die Industrieschutzstaffeln von Focke-Wulf")
Peter Schmoll "Die Messerschmitt-Werke im Zweiten Weltkrieg"

By the way there was only one air victory of ISSt Regensburg: 17 Aug 1943, Fw Mrotzek, B-17

Industrieschutzstaffel Regensburg Aug. 17 '43 Question - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Industrieschutzstaffel Regensburg Aug. 17 '43 Question Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

forum.12oclockhigh.net

 

[Shortround6]

For a while Curtiss had a pair of P-40s assigned to factory defense. Nobody says who they were supposed to being defending against, Canada?
Even an enemy aircraft carrier would have to sailing next to NY City or Baltimore to get closer than 300 miles.

Factory defense sounds a lot better to men in their 40-60s who served in WW I than to anybody who was familiar with actual 1940-42 air defenses.

 

[MIflyer]

When Lockheed and McDonnell Douglas were racing to see which one would put its trijet widebody airliner in the air first, there was threat that the DC-10 would overfly the rollout of the L-1011. Lockheed said if that was to occur they would have their fighters up. Of course that rush led to some serious design flaws in the DC-10 being brushed aside.

 

[Snautzer01]

anybody who was familiar with actual 1940-42 air defenses

Well. In europe is was not that daft. In the US in the great panic after Pearl when everything was not what it was it was anymore, common since I think. There were no nation wide aaa defences. Nor a very organised systeem in 40 to 42.

 

[nuuumannn]

One wonders how much of the 'Fw 187 was a factory-defense fighter' was actually the truth.

According to Hermann and Petrick in their Fw 187 book, it is. The unit was designated 6 Werksschutzstaffel and was not formally of the Luftwaffe but acted under the auspices of the RLM. The aircraft were kept at Fw's Bremen Flugzeugwerk on the order of the RLM of defending the factory against air attack. Pilots were Fw employees and included Hans Sander and Kurt Melhorn, company test pilots, as well as Kurt Tank, who flew a few sorties himself. On 13 February 1940, Fw reported to the RLM that it had four serviceable Fw 187s. The industry defence flight or whatever it was remained for a period of about six months in 1940 before being incorporated into the Luftwaffe's JG 1.