Fastest Piston Engined Aircraft of WW2?

[BiffF15]

View attachment 648212

Interesting mod to the canopy, basically a better view aft for the Razorback.

 

[dedalos]

I have read ,years ago, in a forum, that special prepared P51 s were able to catch Me 262 s in horizontal flight. Even if we assume that most me262s had very poor building quality and thus were underperforming , still we can conclude that individual p51ds were capable of speeds around 800km/h or more. And thus the fastest fighters of the entire war

 

[special ed]

Interesting mod to the canopy, basically a better view aft for the Razorback.

The canopy is a cleaner version, also, because of no fuselage cut out behind canopy.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I have read ,years ago, in a forum, that special prepared P51 s were able to catch Me 262 s in horizontal flight. Even if we assume that most me262s had very poor building quality and thus were underperforming , still we can conclude that individual p51ds were capable of speeds around 800km/h or more. And thus the fastest fighters of the entire war

Right there I find suspect. Bill M may have a comment on this...

 

[pbehn]

I have read ,years ago, in a forum, that special prepared P51 s were able to catch Me 262 s in horizontal flight. Even if we assume that most me262s had very poor building quality and thus were underperforming , still we can conclude that individual p51ds were capable of speeds around 800km/h or more. And thus the fastest fighters of the entire war

I read years ago, I dont know where, that P-51 squadrons trained in UK "clobber colleges" with RAF meteor squadrons practicing diving on the jets to keep their speed up as high as possible to make an attack more difficult. They are only faster when they are faster and 500MPH+ is very fast to shoot at anything.

 

[special ed]

There were accounts of P-51D drivers catching a 262 unawares after the 51 had a lengthy dive, building up speed.

 

[drgondog]

I have read ,years ago, in a forum, that special prepared P51 s were able to catch Me 262 s in horizontal flight. Even if we assume that most me262s had very poor building quality and thus were underperforming , still we can conclude that individual p51ds were capable of speeds around 800km/h or more. And thus the fastest fighters of the entire war

Yes, P-51D tested with JATO/rocket type centerline booster for 60 sec but never deployed in combat. IIRC testing was underway in April 1945, in a P-51D-25-NA and never would have made it to ETO - and no need for Japan.

Flight tests at NAA by Chilton demonstrated acceleration from 429mph to 513mph.

 

[Snautzer01]

North American P-51 Mustang this one

 

[GrauGeist]

The info for the modified P-51D that Snautzer just posted:

It was actually conceived as a means of "flash acceleration" in response to the Me262 threat.

There were two test aircraft, both were P-51D-25 airframes (44-73099 44-74050) and the rocket was an acid-aniline rocket motor that was fed by Red fuming nitric acid, carried in a special tank under the port wing and an aniline-alcohol mixture, carried in a tank under the starboard wing.

The fuel mixture was extremely volitile and could prove to be dangerous in a ground error and/or combat, plus the tests did not produce satisfactory results, so it never developed any further.

 

[Howard Gibson]

A lot of the very high speeds achieved by British and American aircraft late in the war involved 150 octane fuel. This definitely is true of the lightweight Mustangs and the de Havilland Hornet. I don't know about the Spiteful, but I am suspicious.

How do we classify war emergency power (WEP)?

Almost all super high speeds were done at high altitude were there is less drag on non-flying surfaces like the fuselage. The P-47J did 505mph at 34,450ft. The Napier VII powered Hawker Fury did 485mph at 18500ft. I find that impressive. Could 150 octane gas have been involved?

 

[chipieal]

if we are talking twin engined fighters -- what about the Tigercat or the P -- 82

 

[SaparotRob]

I think the P-82 just missed the cut, time wise. Did the F7F get close to an operational theatre before WW2 ended?
Either way, good call chipieal.

 

[GrauGeist]

I think the P-82 just missed the cut, time wise. Did the F7F get close to an operational theatre before WW2 ended?
Either way, good call chipieal.

Both types saw first flights during the war, but neither one saw combat.

They did, however, see action in Korea.

 

[pbehn]

If they are in, so am I

 

[DarrenW]

Almost all super high speeds were done at high altitude were there is less drag on non-flying surfaces like the fuselage. The P-47J did 505mph at 34,450ft. The Napier VII powered Hawker Fury did 485mph at 18500ft. I find that impressive. Could 150 octane gas have been involved?

Using higher octane rated fuels (such as 100/150) would certainly allow for higher manifold pressures below an engine's normal critical altitude (and thus greater performance) but once the aircraft reached that altitude the maximum speed would return to what could be attained while using lower octane fuels due to over boosting (such as 100/130 fuel). In other words, maximum speed would only increase while operating below the normal critical altitude of the particular engine in discussion.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I have read ,years ago, in a forum, that special prepared P51 s were able to catch Me 262 s in horizontal flight. Even if we assume that most me262s had very poor building quality and thus were underperforming , still we can conclude that individual p51ds were capable of speeds around 800km/h or more. And thus the fastest fighters of the entire war

Now I've read it on a forum, too. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[tomo pauk]

How do we classify war emergency power (WEP)?

Good if you have it?

Almost all super high speeds were done at high altitude were there is less drag on non-flying surfaces like the fuselage. The P-47J did 505mph at 34,450ft. The Napier VII powered Hawker Fury did 485mph at 18500ft. I find that impressive. Could 150 octane gas have been involved?

P-47J probably used 130 grade fuel + water injection, like the P-47M and P-47N.
Hawker Fury sported smaller & less draggy wing than the Tempest V, radiators were also better drag streamlined. Less drag = better speed. Sabre VII was making more power vs. Sabre IV, let alone Sabre II, and at all altitudes. It was also to use water injection under 17500 ft (and probably up to 20000-21000 ft with aircraft flying at high speed due to the ram effect). Max power at ~17500 ft was supposed to be 2400 HP (!), the best power was 3050 HP at 2500 ft; all without ram effect.
Per graph at pg. 444 of the 'The secret horsepower race', 1st edition.
Lower drag + more power = more speed.

 

[Howard Gibson]

I have read ,years ago, in a forum, that special prepared P51 s were able to catch Me 262 s in horizontal flight. Even if we assume that most me262s had very poor building quality and thus were underperforming , still we can conclude that individual p51ds were capable of speeds around 800km/h or more. And thus the fastest fighters of the entire war

I am working from Green and Swanborough's WW2 Aircraft Fact Files -- US Army Air Force Fighters Part 2.

Aircraft​	Weight	Speed	Altitude
XP-51F​	9060 lb	466 mph	29,000 ft
XP-51G​	8885 lb	472 mph	20,750 ft
P-51H​	9500 lb	487 mph	25,000 ft

As far as I can tell, all these speeds are at War Emergency Power (WEP), and using 150 octave fuel. The P-51H's Packard Merlin Vf-1650-9, and it was rated at 1380HP for take-off, and 2218HP at 10,200ft and WEP. The maximum continuous rating was 1470HP at 21,300ft.

Top speeds for the P-51D are quoted for 100/130 octane gas and no WEP. It had the same engine as the P-51H. The P-51H required less lift, so it should have somewhat less drag and it should be somewhat faster, and it should have a significant advantage in turn rate and acceleration and climb.

500mph is achieved after a long dive.

 

[tomo pauk]

Top speeds for the P-51D are quoted for 100/130 octane gas and no WEP. It had the same engine as the P-51H.

Care to elaborate the two sentences?

 

[GrauGeist]

The P-51D used the V-1650-7, based on the Merlin 66.

The P-51H used the V-1650-9, based on the Merlin 100.

They were not the same.