Following Iraq's bioweapons trail

[Civettone]

Sorry for the late reply. I hardly ever visit the off-topic forum and forgot about it.

I haven't read all the posts but what exactly are this WMDs which have been found? Didn't GWB himself say that they didn't find them?

As to the UN, it's very very clear. US signed the UN treaty stating that a country may only attack another country out of self defence and when the UNSC gives its consent. This didn't happen and as such the war is illegitemate/illegal.

You can expect the UN to follow the US in whatever it wants, that's against the principle of the UN. The UN which were a mainly American project. I'm sorry that it backfired but you cannot have it both ways. Either you follow the rules, or you drop out the UN so you can do whatever you please.

And Erich, please note that in the Islam discussion I have not used media sources to back up my claims although it would be easy to do. I'm playing by the rules some of you set up.
Kris

 

[Civettone]

Ok, I read the rest.

This same theory will still be employed if the UN closed up shop tomorrow. Consider this - what type of ability would the UN have to conduct any operations if the US withdrew, and also withdrew all funding?

As the US is behind in paying its bills for the amount of a billion and a half US dollars, and as the EU is paying more than the US, I don't think the UN will manage economically without the US.

The UN is a good forum for facilitating int'l diplomacy. However, the idea that it is the source of legitimacy in resolving int'l conflicts that reach a diplomatic impasse is naive.

Are you saying that the UN hasn't resolved int'l conflicts?

Member states generally line up on the side that supports their own national interests.

Of course. Just like the US...


I've also taken a look at those WMDs. It's mainly about that 155mm shell with degraded sarin. I also find it strange that I have to look at Fox media reports to read about this while I'm not allowed to use any media...
So here's some official stuff:
On September 30, 2004, the U.S. Iraq Survey Group Final Report concluded that "The ISG has not found evidence that Saddam possessed WMD stocks in 2003, but [there is] the possibility that some weapons existed in Iraq, although not of a militarily significant capability."
Now this is an AMERICAN report from a Survey Group organized by the CIA and the Pentagon... So if even THEY don't believe what you guys are saying, why should I?
Iraq Survey Group Final Report

Kris

 

[mkloby]

As the US is behind in paying its bills for the amount of a billion and a half US dollars, and as the EU is paying more than the US, I don't think the UN will manage economically without the US.

The US had accounted for about 20 percent of the UN budget. There is debate whether the US should pay dues to the UN. Believe it or not - there's a good chance the US will become hostile towards the US. Look at how impotent the organization is now, and then imagine it without the US. As hunter said - paper tiger.

Are you saying that the UN hasn't resolved int'l conflicts?

You really need to read my posts better. I said int'l conflicts that reach impasse - it's powerless to take any course of action. Take the pathetic UN stance on the Iranian issue.

Of course. Just like the US...

All nations follow their own self-interests. Case closed.

I've also taken a look at those WMDs. It's mainly about that 155mm shell with degraded sarin. I also find it strange that I have to look at Fox media reports to read about this while I'm not allowed to use any media...
So here's some official stuff:
On September 30, 2004, the U.S. Iraq Survey Group Final Report concluded that "The ISG has not found evidence that Saddam possessed WMD stocks in 2003, but [there is] the possibility that some weapons existed in Iraq, although not of a militarily significant capability."
Now this is an AMERICAN report from a Survey Group organized by the CIA and the Pentagon... So if even THEY don't believe what you guys are saying, why should I?
Iraq Survey Group Final Report

Kris

You don't have to believe what we are saying. These guys are not relying up MEDIA, or a report whether from a gov't agency or other. I will say again, NOT ALL INFORMATION IS RLEASED TO THE PUBLIC. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

I'm sure you think that this is a convenient method to avoid showing proof of NBC.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I guess the Mustard Gas that we found is not a WMD in Civettones book.

Civettone do you really think that the Press knows and finds out everything. Again there is so much more happening and going on that you have no clue about...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I haven't read all the posts but what exactly are this WMDs which have been found? Didn't GWB himself say that they didn't find them?

He did say that because the WMDs found were not to the quantity advertised...

BTW - Skud missiles were on the list - the first day of the war Iraq launched 3 or 4 of them.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

As the US is behind in paying its bills for the amount of a billion and a half US dollars, and as the EU is paying more than the US, I don't think the UN will manage economically without the US.

The EU is not a sovereign nation in it self, it is an economic union of several countries - apples and oranges.

 

[Hunter368]

Joe,

The skuds did not have chemicals in them did they?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Good post there FBJ. Yes it is true that the stuff that has been found so far is outdated and probably would not have worked however there is evidence that better quality stuff is in Syria and Iran now.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Joe,

The skuds did not have chemicals in them did they?

No

 

[Civettone]

Civettone do you really think that the Press knows and finds out everything.

Why do you keep bringing that up? Where did I mention the press? I mentioned the Iraqi Survey Group. If they say no WMDs were found, why would I doubt them? A professional 1,000 men team organized by the CIA and Pentagon who have said from the beginning that there were WMDs now say there weren't any.

The EU is not a sovereign nation in it self, it is an economic union of several countries - apples and oranges.

The EU is aa sovereign political body with legal right of its own. The EEU was an economic union, perhaps you're confusing the EU with that?

Kris

 

[Erich]

whoa wait a minute did you not hear repeatedly on many of the news stations broadcasted even from the mid-east that the EU admins were restricted from seeing - looking into certain areas and that restriction was placed because it was not suitable for them to enter nor see until cleaned up. we have intel reprorts of at least 3 spots.

wmds have been found Kris and I can tell you know more than that from a personal standpoint. It has already been mentioned that even the Pres and his cabinet were not given the full reports and turht into the matter and only by political pressure did he hae to come on TV media and say we have found none. iraq and Iran/Syria are vast areas of expanmase, lets be real the media is not everywhere in that area, and more troops US and otheriwse are finding cute little toys that are been found and slowly and with respect opened.

as for the thing in Israel when they wer bombarded by Skuds did you know that at least 2 destroyed had chemicals on board and only by shear resolve and the US influence that Israel did not attack in return with a massive thundering air-strike ~ i am revealing too much .......

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

All I can say is this. I have seen things with my own eyes. I guess to some here I must have been blind or decieved by my own eyes.

The truth will come out eventually and the nay sayers and non believers will be sitting on there ass's feeling like ass's.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Joe,

The skuds did not have chemicals in them did they?

No they were conventional, but they were on the WMD list.

 

[Hunter368]

whoa wait a minute did you not hear repeatedly on many of the news stations broadcasted even from the mid-east that the EU admins were restricted from seeing - looking into certain areas and that restriction was placed because it was not suitable for them to enter nor see until cleaned up. we have intel reprorts of at least 3 spots.

wmds have been found Kris and I can tell you know more than that from a personal standpoint. It has already been mentioned that even the Pres and his cabinet were not given the full reports and turht into the matter and only by political pressure did he hae to come on TV media and say we have found none. iraq and Iran/Syria are vast areas of expanmase, lets be real the media is not everywhere in that area, and more troops US and otheriwse are finding cute little toys that are been found and slowly and with respect opened.

as for the thing in Israel when they wer bombarded by Skuds did you know that at least 2 destroyed had chemicals on board and only by shear resolve and the US influence that Israel did not attack in return with a massive thundering air-strike ~ i am revealing too much .......

Can you talk about those two scuds anymore Erich? Details? Links? anything?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The EU is aa sovereign political body with legal right of its own. The EEU was an economic union, perhaps you're confusing the EU with that?

Kris

Is the EU as a whole a UN member? No. Each member had an independent vote. If that was a case then all members of the EU should surrender their sovereignty, have one UN vote and then your argument would be valid. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Hunter368]

No they were conventional, but they were on the WMD list.

Sorry Joe,

I am confused (sometimes that is easy LOL), why would conventianal Skuds be on the list for WMD?

Sorry if I am asking you a very simple question.

I am just 10 years past evolutionally walking on my knuckes.

 

[Erich]

which skuds ? the ones found in Iraq ? just to let you know mine was at an earlier time and from that it was quite apparent what Saddam was acquiring and trying to work out with his scinece techs advised by some pretty interesting Soviet folk.

Adler is on the monies, but I feel it will never come out as the truth and we will see the effects in the future especially if we are forced to pull out with the winners of the 08 elections

there IS SO MUCH behind the scenes information withheld here on this or any other forums for good reason ............... it is called "FRICKING SECURITY"
so enough of this self proclaimed denial BS from anyone that there were no wmd's or other biologicals.

Hunter I know because i was .......... skuds are an excellent short range carrier with several different warhead adaptions. i'll say no more except let your mind wander. you can see why we have been watching the little snip from north Korea and his ever bogus rocket firings towards Hawaii. the gift zwerg has the mobility and if he gets his puddgy little hands on something which he so wants to do then the world will reap the whirlwind

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Sorry Joe,

I am confused (sometimes that is easy LOL), why would conventianal Skuds be on the list for WMD?

Sorry if I am asking you a very simple question.

I am just 10 years past evolutionally walking on my knuckes.

Hey no problem...

The SKUDS were put on the WMD list because of the problems they caused during GW1 and their ability to be armed with chemical or biological weapons. If Iraq had 1 or 100 they still had a weapon on the WMD list....

 

[Hunter368]

Hey no problem...

The SKUDS were put on the WMD list because of the problems they caused during GW1 and their ability to be armed with chemical or biological weapons. If Iraq had 1 or 100 they still had a weapon on the WMD list....

I see. Thanks

 

[Erich]

do not foget what was found even through TV media.............Iraq/French and Soviet chemical suits in abandoned and partially buried in the sands bunkers