pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
Next year i'll have to reaquire a passport to go anywhere south
Following Iraq's bioweapons trail
- Thread starter Hunter368
- Start date
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mkloby
Senior Master Sergeant
Hasn't anybody thought that the idea of each member state in the UN having an equal voice is absurd? Why should a state with a substantially smaller population have as much voice as say... China??? That's not exactly democratic. In fact, that's one of the reasons that I am not fond of the US Senate.
I disagree with any type of multi-national organization imbued with int'l powers. It requires that a nation give up some of its sovereignty to that organization. Luckily, many Americans agree with that sentiment.
I disagree with any type of multi-national organization imbued with int'l powers. It requires that a nation give up some of its sovereignty to that organization. Luckily, many Americans agree with that sentiment.
Civettone
Tech Sergeant
Yes, it's far from ideal. The principle behind it is noble, giving small countries a bit more to say. A small country like Liechtenstein has a much to say as China. But going for the other method is also troublesome: based on population China would have 3 times more votes than the US, and 100 times more than Belgium. So what do we use as a guide? Perhaps GDP or size of the economy? But then the rich countries get even more power...
Some kind of a consensus should be found. But then very few will be pleased with the proposal. A similar story is going on in the EU now that Holland and France have rejected the European Constitution after some fools gave the people the opportunity to reject it.
Kris
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Throwing my 2 cents in. The question of WMDs is a game played by the media. The US military has a list of what qualifies as a WMD. But the media knows that without an A bomb the general public won't get excited. Found 1500 mustard gas containers but not nuclear warheads? Found chemical trucks all over but no H-bomb? Found everything on the list but the granddaddy "Global Warming Accelerator" weapon! Well, then there were no WMDs!! Now the public protests and demands withdraw.
The "liberal" media is against a conservative Pres, especially one that "stole" the election in the first place. A real, genuine justification for a war goes against their grain.
The US must get away from the UN. But for Hunter's fear of a world bully, the US would not allow such an invasion. The public still has some control over what the pols do and I can't see a scenario like that happening. China? well...............
The "liberal" media is against a conservative Pres, especially one that "stole" the election in the first place. A real, genuine justification for a war goes against their grain.
The US must get away from the UN. But for Hunter's fear of a world bully, the US would not allow such an invasion. The public still has some control over what the pols do and I can't see a scenario like that happening. China? well...............
- Thread starter
- #85
You say that now.......but what about in 25 years? 50 years? 75 Years?
I am sure the countries around Germany never thought they would see WW1 coming.... or perhaps WW2 (well maybe lol).
What about Japan when it started flexing it's military might before 1940.
I am not comparing USA to Germany or Japan but I am just trying to make a point that goverments change, popular opinion changes, all things change over time.
I agree USA would never do such a thing .....now. But who knows what the USA will look like in 25, 50, 75 years.
When you are part of the most powerful nation on the planet.....well I am sure you are not to concerned. But people living in smaller nations might be a little more concerned. I am not willing to blindly "trust" USA with my life, future or my sovereignty.
I say this with all the respect in the world towards USA, but I trust no one blindly when they are holding a much bigger stick than I am.
Thats my point
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Oh I agree with you and I may be a bit naive when it comes to putting my faith in the public to force the Gov to do the proper thing.
I just don't know how it would work out. Sometimes I believe that the US should go back to a neutral position but keeping with your Teddy Roosevelt comment, we should carry a really big stick behind our backs to protect ourselves. I think the politicians get our country into too much crap and then can't get us out.
I just don't know how it would work out. Sometimes I believe that the US should go back to a neutral position but keeping with your Teddy Roosevelt comment, we should carry a really big stick behind our backs to protect ourselves. I think the politicians get our country into too much crap and then can't get us out.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
You say that now.......but what about in 25 years? 50 years? 75 Years?
I am sure the countries around Germany never thought they would see WW1 coming.... or perhaps WW2 (well maybe lol).
What about Japan when it started flexing it's military might before 1940.
I am not comparing USA to Germany or Japan but I am just trying to make a point that goverments change, popular opinion changes, all things change over time.
I agree USA would never do such a thing .....now. But who knows what the USA will look like in 25, 50, 75 years.
When you are part of the most powerful nation on the planet.....well I am sure you are not to concerned. But people living in smaller nations might be a little more concerned. I am not willing to blindly "trust" USA with my life, future or my sovereignty.
I say this with all the respect in the world towards USA, but I trust no one blindly when they are holding a much bigger stick than I am.
Thats my point
Living in Canada for 5 years, I understand where you're coming from. But look at this way - look at the US 25 years ago and then look at the US today - little change. Even go back 40 years; the biggest difference (in my opinion) is more civil rights laws and more sensitivity toward minority groups (some ridiculous, some necessary). I think our societies and cultures are so similar any changes are usually transparent when viewed from "sitting on the fence."
- Thread starter
- #88
Believe me Joe there is no other country I would sooner live beside then the USA. I love alot of things about USA, I trust the USA more than any other nation.
But I could be living next to the Virgin Mary herself......I still would not trust her 100%.
So now you're also a scientist and expert on WMDs? Personally, I couldn't be sure something is a WMD if you put it right on my desk. And then I start couphing up blood and my eyes start popping out...
Now you are just being stupid and instulting.
Did I ever say that I was a scientist or expert on WMD's?
No so dont go and insult my intelligence...
First of all, we recieve training on WMDs and how to tell what they are. Second of all I did not identify the mustard gas that was found, I flew the teams out and back that did identify it though.
Third do you even know what Anthropene Injectors are? I carried 2 of them on me at all times.
So again before you go and make accusations as you are, learn about the subject and get a fricken clue before you piss me off.
Civettone
Tech Sergeant
Chill down dude, I wasn't insulting your intelligence. I said I wouldn't recognize a WMD either! You need to be an expert to recognize it as a WMD, and you said you saw it yourself. You didn't mention any experts around you...Now you are just being stupid and instulting.
Did I ever say that I was a scientist or expert on WMD's?
No so dont go and insult my intelligence...
No ... but I do know what Atropine injectors are. If I really was insulting your intelligence, I would say you can't even say it right...
So Chris, what was found and where? Perhaps you'll find it mentioned in the Survey Report. Only 700 pages to browse through...
Iraq Survey Group Final Report
Except for two members, all I've heard from you guys is how the media tricks us and that the truth is hidden ... isn't that convenient? You can prove anything by that. And what about right-wing media then? How come they don't provide proof?
And note that I'm not using any media sources, I'm using official reports. Like I said before, the guys at the Pentagon and the CIA would sell their mothers to find WMDs in Iraq.
Kris
- Thread starter
- #91
Chill down dude, I wasn't insulting your intelligence. I said I wouldn't recognize a WMD either! You need to be an expert to recognize it as a WMD, and you said you saw it yourself. You didn't mention any experts around you...
No ... but I do know what Atropine injectors are. If I really was insulting your intelligence, I would say you can't even say it right...
So Chris, what was found and where? Perhaps you'll find it mentioned in the Survey Report. Only 700 pages to browse through...
Iraq Survey Group Final Report
Except for two members, all I've heard from you guys is how the media tricks us and that the truth is hidden ... isn't that convenient? You can prove anything by that. And what about right-wing media then? How come they don't provide proof?
And note that I'm not using any media sources, I'm using official reports. Like I said before, the guys at the Pentagon and the CIA would sell their mothers to find WMDs in Iraq.
Kris
Careful kris,
You said to Chris "So now you're also a scientist and expert on WMDs?"
That is rude and insulting.
Then you are being a smartazz by making fun of him on a spelling error.
You have an agruement with WMD but don't lose it by turning this into an arguement with a Mod. Stay on course and be respectful.
I said I saw the site myself and walked though the site...
Go back and read the post, if you dont understand what I am saying then please ask and I will tell you but dont tell me what I mean by my words.
2nd if something that I saw with my own 2 eyes was identified by Chem experts then yes I have seen it with my own 2 eyes. That is more than you have ever seen on the subject.
Civettone said:No ... but I do know what Atropine injectors are. If I really was insulting your intelligence, I would say you can't even say it right...
Simple typo, you make them too...
Civettone said:
I dont give a damn what that report says. I know what has been seen and what was reported as found by our units. If it does not make into a report sounds to me like there is a cover up going on...
Sorry Civ but I was there, I know what I saw and what others have seen. I know that I am wrong though, because a citizen of Belgium knows more about what is going on a US (and her allies) military conflict than the people that were there.
Civettone if you read on a piece of paper that the color of the roof at 15 Street was Red and I went to 15 Street and saw the roof was Blue you would tell me that I am wrong. I was there I saw the roof, you have only read about it, but you are wrong.
Civettone said:
Then you again are proving that you are not reading a single thing that I post or you have selective reading of my posts because I have given you many instances of what I have seen and what other things have been found. Our unit reported finds when we were there. If they do not make it into a report well then I dont know what to tell you, but questioning my honor and integrity like that sure is pretty piss poor in my opinion.
Civettone
Tech Sergeant
Don't pull that one on me again. You didn't say anything about experts. You need to be an expert to know what a WMD is. (Or why were those experts there.) So then I asked, are you an expert? No, you're not. I also said I wasn't an expert either, so I don't see what you could find insulting about that.
More than I'm aware of. If I wanted to ridicule you, I would have used that typo to my advantage, saying you don't even know how they are called, so how...
Well, if you want I can give you some other examples where the US Military claimed that WMDs were found, and that a team of specialists later found they weren't WMDs or no longer active.
So again, where was it and what was it?
I do read your post but you systematically say EVERYTHING is wrong except for what you've seen with your own eyes. I disagree with that. And I've already explained why I disagree with that. I've made analogies with WW2 eye witness accounts. "I've shot down a He 113 and I don't care if you tell me there never was one. Who was there? You or I??"
I do respect you Chris, more than you know, but I don't believe everything you say even though I believe you're being truthful about what you've seen.
Kris
Matt308
Glock Perfection
ZZzzzzzz.....
- Thread starter
- #95
Kris you say you respect him but.....you post like you don't. Don't pay lip service to anyone here. You say one thing then you post sarcastic post the next second. You can disagree with the Mods here, god knows I have, but do it in a respectful way. You can just say " lets agree to disagree on this". Believe me I know the message you are trying to get across.....just do it without getting banned.
I will say again:
Careful kris,
You said to Chris "So now you're also a scientist and expert on WMDs?"
That is rude and insulting.
Then you are being a smartazz by making fun of him on a spelling error.
You have an agruement with WMD but don't lose it by turning this into an arguement with a Mod. Stay on course and be respectful.
Just drop the whole thing with Chris.
Stay on subject here.....you will not win any arguement with a Mod.
I will say again:
Careful kris,
You said to Chris "So now you're also a scientist and expert on WMDs?"
That is rude and insulting.
Then you are being a smartazz by making fun of him on a spelling error.
You have an agruement with WMD but don't lose it by turning this into an arguement with a Mod. Stay on course and be respectful.
Just drop the whole thing with Chris.
Stay on subject here.....you will not win any arguement with a Mod.
Civettone
Tech Sergeant
I disagree. Hunter, you are not impartial either, are you?
One needs to be an expert to correctly identify WMDs. Chris is not. So I asked "Are you a scientist and expert on WMD?"
I did not want to insult Chris. If I gave that impression, I apologize.
But now I would like to continue the discussion. And I can also do without Matt's sarcastic comments and his habit of making claims without backing them up.
Kris
One needs to be an expert to correctly identify WMDs. Chris is not. So I asked "Are you a scientist and expert on WMD?"
I did not want to insult Chris. If I gave that impression, I apologize.
But now I would like to continue the discussion. And I can also do without Matt's sarcastic comments and his habit of making claims without backing them up.
Kris
Matt308
Glock Perfection
If you don't like my sarcasm, you have come to the wrong place Civ. My sarcasm defines my 5000 posts. So get used to it.
- Thread starter
- #98
LOL We love you (in purely manly sort of way, burp!) Matt even if some do not.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Thanks, Hunter.
- Thread starter
- #100
You are back peddeling.....You said to Chris "So now you're also a scientist and expert on WMDs?"
That is sarcasim and rude, don't think your little changing of the words can get you out of it. Just say sorry without making excuses or changing what you said. Then get back on the subject.
Please explain how I am not impartial on this subject. I am trying to help before you go to far and start a huge war with Chris (which you would not win).