French guns and ammunition

Discussion in 'Weapons Systems Tech.' started by Tzaw1, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. Tzaw1

    Tzaw1 Member

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    For good start :)

    Aroarchives : l'armement
     
  2. Arsenal VG-33

    Arsenal VG-33 Member

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    Unfortunately, not much information here. Links from the page listed do not work.
     
  3. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the links Tzaw, unfortunately my computer is "vaccined" against E-mule links, but dont worry, i will add information about the topic when enough time available.
     
  4. Tzaw1

    Tzaw1 Member

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    Manuals of French weapons from Aéroarchives.
    I hope, that they will not have nothing against.

    Canon Hispano Suiza 404 (Notice technique) [http://www.aerostories.org/~aeromule/armement.htm]
    Mitrailleuses aviation Darne (Notice technique) [http://www.aerostories.org/~aeromule/armement.htm]
    Mitrailleuse Hotchkiss 1918 Aviation (manuel illustré) [http://www.aerostories.org/~aeromule/armement.htm]
    Mitrailleuse Hotchkiss 1918 Aviation (manuel illustré) [http://www.aerostories.org/~aeromule/armement.htm]
     
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  5. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    Very nice, very nice.
     
  6. Deanimator

    Deanimator New Member

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    There's a lot of good information in Chinn's five volume set, "The Machine Gun", as well as Hogg's "The Complete Machinegun", which borrows heavily from Chinn. There's lots of good information in both about the Hotchkiss and Darne guns, with lots of good pictures.
     
  7. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    Thank I do have Chinn, but sadly havent Hoggs work.
     
  8. B-17engineer

    B-17engineer Active Member

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    Guns as in Artillery or Firearms?

    Well for firearms

    All From "Encyclopedia of WWII Weapons"

    Fusil MAS36

    Specifications:
    Caliber: 7.5mm (0.295 inches)
    Length: 1.019 (40.13)
    Length of Barrel: 574mm (22.6 in)
    Weight: 3.76kg (8.09 lbs)
    Muzzle Velocity: 823 m (2700ft) per second
    Magazine: 5 round box

    History:

    In the period following WWI the French army decided to adopt a new standard service cartridge with a caliber of 7.5mm. The new cartridge was adopted in 1924, but following some low-priority and therefore lengthy trials, it was found that the new cartridge was unsafe under certain circumstances and thus it had to be modified in 1929. In that year the French decided to adopt a new rifle to fire the new round, but it was not until 1932 that the prototype was ready. Then followed a series of further trials that went on at a slow pace until 1936, when the new rifle was accepted to service. This was called the Fusil MAS36
     

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  9. adr32

    adr32 New Member

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    B-17engineer nice pic can i borrow that book one day
     
  10. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    Very good.

    Like in aircraft guns. :)
     
  11. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    #11 CharlesBronson, Aug 19, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
    Hotchkiss 8mm Lebel.

    The Hotchkiss was based on a design by Captain Baron A. Odkolek von Augeza of Vienna. The patents had been purchased by the firm of Benjamin Hotchkiss, based in Saint-Denis, near Paris. Benjamin Hotchkiss was no longer alive at the time of the purchase, but the Odkolek design was further developed and greatly improved under the direction of American-born Laurence V. Benet (1863-1948 ) with the assistance of Henri Mercie. After trials that began in 1895, development issues were resolved leading to the first purchase of the Hotchkiss gun by the French Military in 1897. In 1898 an export model was also offered for international sales by Hotchkiss. With some useful changes, such as the addition of five cooling radiator rings on the barrel, the same basic design led to the M1900, and later to the M1914 ( with other minor improvements in 1908 ). In the meantime adoption of the St. Étienne Mle 1907 ( a French government arsenal product derived from the Puteaux M1905 machine gun) to equip the infantry went through in 1908, because of internal political pressures. Nevertheless the Hotchkiss machine gun was also purchased in significant numbers for use in the French colonies and by French mountain troops in the Alps. By the crucial year of 1916, French line infantry, still being equipped with the unsatisfactory Saint-Etienne, convinced General Petain that it urgently needed the more reliable Hotchkiss. It got its wish and French infantry divisions became entirely outfitted with the Hotchkiss gun in late 1917 and 1918.

    [​IMG]

    The Hotchkiss was gas actuated and air cooled, in contrast to the Maxim gun and its derivatives (which were recoil operated and water cooled). The barrel featured five large annular ribs which materially assisted its natural cooling and retarded overheating. The gas cylinder under the barrel featured a regulator piston which could be adjusted to the normal rate of fire of 450 rounds per minute. The Hotchkiss had only 32 parts, including four springs (of the coil type only) and no screws or pins, making it simple and easy to take apart and maintain. All parts of the gun were constructed in such a manner that it is impossible to assemble them improperly. The Hotchkiss fired from an open bolt, a common disposition existing today in all machine guns (in order to avoid "cook-offs" ), but a first in 1897. Although reliable and easy to feed continuously with a three man team, each individual strip held only 24 rounds of ammunition. Each empty feed strip was ejected automatically after its last round had been fired ,leaving the bolt open in the rearward position. Then introducing a new loaded strip into the gun triggered the release forward of the bolt and firing resumed. The Hotchkiss strips performed well with a three-man crew, but their capacity was too small for a single gunner firing from the inside of a tank or within a confined position. This led to the adoption of a 250-round articulated metal belt in 1917. It was widely used in French tanks of the period, as well as in infantry Hotchkiss teams for special situations. It was also used by French airmen, an entire subject in itself.

    It was alogical step to adopt it for aviation even tough it wasnt very suited because the strip 25 rounds feed, quite uncorfortable to handle in open cockpits.

    Despite that the french got the honour to achieve the first air-to-air kill of the history with a Hotchkiss:

    On October 5, 1914, French pilot Joseph Frantz and mechanic/observer Louis Quénault were returning from a mission in a Voisin III biplane bomber. Their aircraft had just been outfitted with a Hotchkiss machine gun, and Quénault, sitting in front, had been instructed to try it out. At 6,500 feet over the French village of Jamoigne, he got his chance. A German Aviatik B.1, flown by Sergeant Wilhelm Schlichting, had been flying reconnaissance over French positions when Quénault spotted it below. He opened fire, and soon the Aviatik plummeted to earth. French troops watching from the ground burst into applause.

    In 1915 was adapted to the machine wich was probably teh first fighter ever, a Morane monoplane equipped with steel wedges to deveiate the bullets from stricking the propeller. The mounting was crude but effective, its inventor destroyed 3 german two seats before being captured.

    The Roland Garros emplacement.

    [​IMG]

    In 1917 the Hotchkiss was finally converted to belt feed, the non-disintegrable type.
     
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  12. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    - Hotchkiss 8mm in Deperdussin arranged to fire over the propeller, the gunner job definately was not the most desirable.
     

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  13. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    Handbook of the Hotchkiss 1918 caliber adapted for british .303 used in tanks and aircraft.
     

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  14. Tzaw1

    Tzaw1 Member

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    Pack of drawings and photoes Darne. Probably from aerostories:?:
    Installation in Amiot 123 and ammo: AP, AP with tracer, incendiary (from Vooruzhenye samolyeta. Sbornyk matyeryalov. Moscow 1941).
    And all zipped in big dimension.
     

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  15. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    French guns and ammo? What French guns and ammo? They had guns and ammo?

    :lol:

    Just kidding everyone, even this thread could use some humor.

    Good info, especially for someone like myself who honestly does not know much about French weapons.
     
  16. Tzaw1

    Tzaw1 Member

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    From where took British Hispano? 8)
     
  17. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Go back and read all of the post (not just the first line), it was a joke...
     
  18. Tzaw1

    Tzaw1 Member

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    I know, you know... :D
     
  19. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    Well, the poor performance of french forces in ww2 gave place to a lot of jokes :)

    Very Nice, very nice.
     
  20. Tzaw1

    Tzaw1 Member

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    Chapter from "l'Aviation chasse française 1918-1940" (french).
     

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