FW-190 - How Good Was It, Really?

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DarrenW

Staff Sergeant
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Dec 24, 2017
Warren, MI USA
There has been a lot of discussion on this forum concerning the relative merits of the Focke Wulf fighter. Is this unbridled adulation based on fact or has time clouded it's true virtues and accomplishments? Was it a quality airframe or did it benefit mostly from use of proper tactics and great piloting skills?

I'd like to include all variants of this fighter, discussing each in context of the mission they were tasked to perform.

I look forward to hearing from any and all with an understanding of this seemingly immortal aircaft.

Thanks!
 
Damn fine aircraft? Yes, without question. Immortal? please...:rolleyes:

There are smarter guys than me here to fill in the voids, so I'll let them do that. Plus there are many threads here already that discuss the FW.

None other than Gen. Chuck Yeager had highest praise for the Dora.
 
From what I've read, the Fw 190 radial fighters were very good aircraft with a few faults.

On the plus side, they were fast, robust, could roll very quickly at low to medium airspeed, had wide-spaced landing gear for good ground handling and high resistance to nosing over on the ground, and had relatively low control forces. The engine control was a single-lever type, meaning engine operation was made a one-hand affair. The armament was heavy and only one or maybe two hits were needed to produce some serious damage in an enemy aircraft.

On the negative side, the stall had no warning, so only very experienced pilots would pull near the turn limit. The single-lever engine control meant it was difficult to fly formation without constant attention to the throttle. The service ceiling was relatively low and performance started to fall off about 20,000 feet and the rate of climb was average, though zoom climb was excellent (much as some Allied planes). In the ETO, that was medium altitude. The forward visibility wasn't the greatest, either. it was also almost impossible to open the canopy in flight. To assist with jettisoning the canopy for bailing out, most were fitted with blank 20 mm cartridges aimed backward to help push the canopy back when fired.

Last the engines had low TBO but were reliable in field use, so that really isn't either good or bad ... just a fact. I am under the impression that the low TBO of the BMW 801 was easily "fixable," but it required supplies of metals that Germany simply wasn't going to get. Since it didn't affect operations, it is just an interesting aside. The early jet engines were also "low life" units due to lack of certain metals.

Balanced out, the radial Fw 190 series were formidable low-to-medium altitude fighters that hit hard, were fast, rolled better than almost anything else at normal speeds, had great ground handling as opposed to the Bf 109 series, were available and, when they came out, generally took the title of "best fighter in the ETO" from the Spitfire V until the Spitfire IX (2-stage Merlin) was developed. After that, they were still first-rate fighters, near the top of the heap, that demanded respect until the end of the war unless you were way up high. Most Allied pilots considered them the best of the German piston fighters.

The liquid-cooled Fw 190s lost a bit of turn rate due to the longer engine, but mostly retained the high roll rates. The Fw 190D series were widely considered to be the best German piston fighter of all. They had good speed (not great), a very good service ceiling, very good roll, decent turn, but not as good as the radial models, and retained heavy armament. The last minute Ta 152 series were superb but, with only a handful every actually flying (about 43 total delivered, never more than about 20 at any one time), they never made even a dent in combat and actually acquired a very ordinary combat record (with 2 - 4 losses and 8 - 10 victories). My own take on it was that no matter HOW good they were, a handful of fighters against 1,000-plane raids and hordes of marauding Allied fighters were bound to be reduced to hit-and-run tactics if only due to the sheer number of Allied planes over Germany most of the time. Unfortunately, the Ta 152 series came out and made it's debut in April 1945, when the Luftwaffe more of less collapsed.

Go look at the number of US ground kills in WWII. It is Table 197 in the Statistical Digest of WWII. The US didn't start having ground kills until Feb 44 when they had one! After that, they got anywhere from 150 to 400 or so ground kills per month until April 1945 when they got 3,703 ground kills! That's not a misprint. That can ONLY mean the Luftwaffe had virtually ceased operations ... right when the Ta 152 came out. Talk about bad timing!

To me the Bf 109 and the Fw 190 made up a very good, very deadly duo that complimented each other very well. Had the war continued and had the Ta 152 made it into volume production, I have no doubt that it would have risen to near the top of the piston fighter heap, where the Fw 190 was right from the day it entered combat. I don't consider it to be "best piston fighter ever" myself, but it wasn't far from it, and it should figure in the list when that subject is talked about. Let's say it deserves a solid thumbs up rating, and has a solid place in aerial warfare history when people talk about "the best." Again, and unfortunately for the Ta 152, it came out when the Me 262 was making itself known. Good as the Ta 152 was, it wasn't going to be the mount of choice when jets were available. The Ta 152s ended their careers flying top cover for the Me 262s when they had to slow down around the airfield to land. Most (but not all) Allied planes decided not to mix it up with the airfield guards since the war was winding down anyway and there was no sense getting killed for a jet victory.

Had jets not been developed, the Ta 152 would likely be VERY close to number one on the piston list, and would certainly be in the top 3 - 4 piston fighters out of the hundreds ever made. That's not bad in anybody's book.
 
The FW 190 was a headache for a long time to the RAF, it forced the Typhoon into service early and also the somewhat forced development of the Spitfire Mk IX also the next developments of the Spitfire the Spiteful were to have stiffened wings to close the gap in roll rate, all these are compliments to the Fw 190 design.
 
These sort of questions always become ones of opinion. Even if there was some across the board type of score sheet aircraft do not fly themselves. The pilot is an integral part of the question. A superior on paper aircraft flown by a mediocre pilot vs. an inferior on paper aircraft flown by a skilled pilot. Naturally one cannot go to far with such comparisons and one needs must consider numbers. German Industry in the middle of the war could never match the industrial might of the US safely out of the actual war. A Tiger tank could kill 20 Shermans and still loose. German desparation also led to them putting their best pilots on the front lines where they sooner or later were killed unable to pass their knowledge and skills to new pilots
That being said:
The development of the FW-190 began with a contract in 1937 from the Reichsluftfahrtministerium for a new single-seat fighter. The new plane was designed by Focke-Wulf engineer Kurt Tank, a German aeronautical engineer and test pilot. He was chief engineer in Focke-Wulf's design department from 1931 to 1945. He was not only responsible for the development of the FW-190, but also the Focke-Wulf Ta-152 fighter-interceptor and my model in progress the FW-200 Condor. The FW-190 was first developed as two different models, one using the water-cooled inline Daimler-Benz DB 601 engine and the other using the BMW 139 air-cooled radial. The BMW 139 was selected for development in summer of 1938. The first prototype flew on June 1, 1939. The BMW 139 produced 1,550 horsepower, attaining a speed of 370 miles per hour. Fairly soon the BMW 139 was replaced by the BMW 801, a new engine design with great potential but the new engine did have some problems. Powered by the new BMW engine, which produced 1,600 horsepower, the FW-190A-1 was armed with four wing-mounted 7.92mm MG17 machine guns.
First impressions of the new BMW 801 engine were not good. Test pilots reported: "The new twin row, 14 cylinder, air-cooled radial engine gave us nothing but misery. Whatever could possibly go wrong with it, did. We hardly dared to leave the immediate vicinity of the airfield with our six prototype machines," reported one pilot. The project came close to being cancelled but most of the problems were corrected and the plane was cleared for service in July 1941. The FW-190A1 used the BMW 801C, 1600 horsepower engine, which powered a three-bladed variable pitch propeller that could attain a top speed of 388 miles per hour. The wide-track landing gear folded in toward the fuselage, which was extra strong to accommodate future weight growth and offered good stability on the ground. The FW-190A1 carried four rifle-caliber machine guns, two in the cowling and two in the wing roots, all of which were fired through the propeller arc. One of the major changes made by Tank and his designers was in the FW-190's armament. They replaced the inboard MG17s with two 20mm FF cannons. The modified fighter now had the designation of FW-190 A-2 and took the Royal Air Force completely unawares with descriptions of the plane being discounted by British intelligence.
The FW-190 first saw action over the English Channel in 1941. In February 1942, it was providing cover for the German battlecruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisinau and the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen as they tried to reach northern German ports. In one engagement, the 190s destroyed all six attacking Royal Navy Fairey Swordfish torpedo bombers. The new fighter was faster and more agile than the Spitfire. The FW-190 was a stout opponent in a dogfight with its extremely heavy armament. The FW-190 pilots tended to work in pairs, giving each other good tactical support in battle. The excellent visibility provided by the plane's cockpit assisted the pilots in supporting one another. As time went on, the FW-190 became a severe threat to Allied aircraft in every region where the Luftwaffe was active. It inflicted huge losses on B-17 Flying Fortress and Consolidated B-24 Liberator bomber crews, and was almost impossible to stop until the long-range P-51 Mustang came into service in 1944 and began escorting bombers to their targets.
The new aircraft might have had an even greater impact on the air war but for one error. In June 1942, a Luftwaffe pilot accidentally presented an intact FW-190A fighter to his enemies. Oberleutnant Armin Faber landed on what he thought was a Luftwaffe airfield on the Cotentin Peninsula that turned out to be the RAF airfield at Pembrey, Wales. As he slowly taxied to a stop, Faber was totally surprised when someone jumped on the wing and pointed a pistol at his head.
The RAF quickly transported the aircraft to the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough. The airframe and engine were dismantled and thoroughly analyzed before being reassembled. After being test flown the plane was delivered to the Air Fighting Development Unit at Duxford, Cambridgeshire, where it was put through intensive performance trials and flown competitively against several Allied fighter types. The AFDU trials had proven what the RAF already knew, that the FW-190 was an outstanding development in fighter aircraft.
The detailed examination of the FW-190 had a huge influence on fighter development in Britain. It resulted directly in the specification F.2/43 to which was designed the Hawker Fury, which incorporated numerous features directly copied from the FW-190A and F.19/43, which produced the Folland Fd.118 fighter project.
In 1943, the Luftwaffe needed a fighter with better high-altitude performance. The answer was the long-nosed "D" model or "Dora." The first production model was the FW-190 D-9 which attained production status in the early summer of 1944. The new plane's purpose would be to face the Allied bombers, particularly the American Boeing B-29 Superfortress, which was known to be coming into service. The FW-190 D was the first production FW-190 to use a liquid-cooled engine and was a very good high-altitude interceptor equal to the North American P-51 Mustang or Supermarine Spitfire MK XIV. Deliveries of the FW-190D-9 began in August 1944. The first mission of the new fighter was to provide top cover for Messerschmitt Me-262 jet fighters during takeoff when they were most vulnerable. The prevailing opinion among the FW-190D-9 pilots was that it was the best Luftwaffe propeller-driven fighter of the entire war and was more than a match for the P-51 Mustang. Experience gained with the D Model led to the development of the high-altitude Focke-Wulf Ta 152. Ta was in honor of Kurt Tank. The inline engine fighter was going to be the top version of the now famous fighter, but delays prevented them being manufactured in adequate numbers. In the final chaotic year of the Third Reich only a few Ta-152Hs and possibly a few Ta-152Cs got into combat.
One of the more important roles played by the FW-190s was in the defense of the Reich. The first month of the air campaign ended with the raid on Wilhelmshaven on February 26, 1943. In this phase of the campaign, the fighting ended in favor of the Luftwaffe, which downed 15 heavy bombers from the U.S. Eighth Air Force while it suffered seven pilots killed and one wounded. On March 4, the FW-190s played a major role in attacking a group of B-17s whose target was the marshaling yards at Hamm in North Rhine-Westphalia. Four of the five bombers were shot down in the Eighth Air Force's first appearance over the Ruhr, Germany's industrial heartland. On April 17, the Eighth Air Force returned to Bremen, but this time its target was the city's Focke-Wulf aircraft factories. These were producing the very FW-190 fighters that the Americans were fighting in the air. During this raid the Americans lost 16 B-17s with 10 falling to the FW-190s. These losses were at least part of the reason that the Eighth Air Force did not reappear over the Reich for nearly a month.
In the second half of 1943, the Eighth Air Force suffered catastrophic casualties, but the defenders' losses would begin to escalate as the year wore on. In this period, the U.S. Army Air Forces lost 87 bombers and had more than 500 damaged mostly due to Luftwaffe attacks, many of which involved FW-190s.
The arrival of U.S. escort fighters in ever increasing numbers would dramatically change the situation. The Luftwaffe pilots would no longer have the luxury of remaining unmolested beyond the range of the bombers' defensive fire and then deciding how to deliver the attack. Protected by their fighters, the bombers would be much more difficult to approach, and kills would become more difficult to achieve with losses inevitably becoming much higher.
The number of fighters escorting Eighth Air Force bombers would eventually exceed 500. One method which the Luftwaffe began to develop to counter the increased number of enemy fighters was to have the Me-109s keep the enemy fighters occupied while the FW-190s attacked the bombers. The Luftwaffe also transferred many of its most successful pilots closer to Germany to defend the Reich in the most critical campaign of the European air war.
By the end of 1942, the FW-190 was fighting in North Africa, on the Eastern Front, and in Western Europe. In the Soviet Union, the FW-190 was effective in low-flying ground attacks on vehicle convoys and tanks. In this theater, the FW-190 carried 250- and 500-pound bombs, either of which could knock out a tank. One major issue on the Eastern Front was keeping the FW-190s and other aircraft supplied. This was at a time when many of the planes were flying up to eight sorties a day. On the Eastern Front, the FW-190's reliable air-cooled engine and wide-track landing gear were well suited for service in the extremely harsh conditions. Operations on the Eastern Front led to a number of changes that resulted in the FW-190F fighter-bomber designed with a special emphasis on ground attack. This particular version carried 794 pounds of armor, which included sections of steel plate located behind the pilot's head, on the lower engine cowling, and in the wheel well doors. The F-8 version turned out to be the most important model of the "F" series. Frontline units, using kits supplied by the factory, could adapt these aircraft to carry various combinations of heavy cannons, bombs, rockets, and even torpedoes.
As the war went on, the different models of the FW-190 were in almost constant contact with enemy bombers. This led to improvements in the form of more cannons and underwing rockets. Later, bomb racks were fitted to the FW-190 airframe under the fuselage and under the wings to broaden the capability of the fighter for attacking ground targets. By the end of the war, German fighter airfields were forced back closer to Berlin for fear of being bombed, which resulted in the FW-190 becoming more of a ground attack and support aircraft as German air power dwindled in the final days of the war. The Allied bombing campaign reduced the number of FW-190s, and the added issue of pilot attrition only made the situation for the Luftwaffe much worse. The end was in sight.
 
Good points: capability to accept big & powerful engines without much of problem, usualy heavy firepower, very good rate of roll, before late 1942 Allies have had nothing comparable performance-vise. By late 1943 was still a competitive fighter at all altitudes, capability for carrying heavy load under fuselage and wings despite a small wing, fighter-bomber versions were very useful and as survivable as it gets.
Bad points are mostly related to the engine choice, or lack of it. The BMW 801C was unreliable to the point of RLM canceling the whole Fw 190 project. The 801 series were as heavy as the R-2800, and used almost 50% more fuel than the contemporary DB 601/605 engines, with bigger drag & weight and just barely better altitude power. When BMW 801 worked well (roughly from late 1942 on) it was excellent engine, though, especially the mid- and low-alt power was very good. RLM/LW dropped the ball with not inisting on V12 powered variant from day one. The non instaling of Jumo 213 or/and DB 603 on the Fw 190 by late 1943 was another grave mistake. That BMW 801 never got a two-stage supercharger was again a mistake, too much of resources went into BMW 802/803 projects, so even the 801E and 801S were missed opportunities and too late, respectively.
Thus, RAF equaled the Fw 190 with Spitfire IX/VII/VIII/XII and Typhoon (at low- and mid-altitudes), while USAF introduced P-47 that was a far better fighter above 20000 ft. In the same time, the Fw 190 gained drag and weight, with no increase in altitude power. So once the P-51B was introduced, things went from bad to awful for the Fw 190s since there was not enough left of German aerospace to retreat to.
The Fw 190D-9 and A-9 were introduced too late, not being capable to really challenge the Allied best mounts even on one-on-one basis.
 
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Wow guys this is awesome stuff! I need to find a little time to sitdown and digest it all.

Any and all responses concerning it's development, operational use, flying characteristics, prominent and minor strengths and weaknesses throughout it's career, and how it may have stacked up to the competition is greatly appreciated and welcomed....
 
Galland (who was a plane tech geek) prefered the Fw190 over the Bf109 for himself to fly!

I think the multi-role capability of the Fw190 was what made it great, It was a great fighter-bomber and bomber-interceptor that replaced the Stuka and Bf110 for ground work and was a much better bomber killer than any Bf109.
 
After taking in what everyone has said so far about the FW-190, an underlying theme is beginning to emerge. Roughly two years after it's introduction the FW-190 was being tasked more and more as either a bomber interceptor or ground attack machine and mind you performed quite well at both of these tasks.

Be that as it may, I was wondering how many here feel that this takes away some of the credibility and luster that it garnered over the years, seeing that the general consensus on this forum is that shooting down lumbering bombers is a somewhat "easier" task than mixing it up with fast, agile enemy fighters (although I didn't actually crunch the numbers concerning opinions, just something I've noticed after reading assorted threads).

If this is actually true than shouldn't the BF-109 get way more credibility as a fighter, being forced to handle the enemy's more lethal adversaries, i.e. single-seat fighters, while the FW-190 got all the "gravy" by being able to target the slower, more vulnerable bombers? Opinions?
 
The Focke wulf was a dangerous opponent , heavily armed, with plenty of power and well protected. ive read it was competitive in the manouvre, and a good climber and diver.

It was defeated by numbers and rising abilities of the allied pilots, and corresponding fall in the ability of the average german aircrews.

In my opinion it was a superior mount to the Me109, though most of the LW aces gained their status flying the 109. Figure that one out if you can!!!
 
The Focke wulf was a dangerous opponent , heavily armed, with plenty of power and well protected. ive read it was competitive in the manouvre, and a good climber and diver.

It was defeated by numbers and rising abilities of the allied pilots, and corresponding fall in the ability of the average german aircrews.

In my opinion it was a superior mount to the Me109, though most of the LW aces gained their status flying the 109. Figure that one out if you can!!!

I suspect that the Fw 190 was more like a British or American fighter than was the Bf 109, in that it seems to have been a machine that responded well to the average pilot. The Bf 109 was cheap, and superb in the hands of an experte. Thus the very elite of Luftwaffe aces flew the 109, because they could ultimately wring more out of it. But for the average pilot, the 190 has a better weapon.
 
The Bf 109 has a very strong claim to the title of best fighter of the war, if you decide victories over enemy aircraft are worth counting. Most of the great aces made their mark in the Bf 109. Notably, the top 3 aces shot down just over 900 aircraft flying the Bf 109. It was truly great airplane that ended up on the losing side, but that doesn't either detract from it's accomplishments or solve it's weaknesses.

As a pure fighter, particularly an offensive fighter, the Bf 109 is probably and arguably better than the Fw 190 ... at least the radial models. Maybe not the Fw 190D / long nose series. As an all-round military aircraft asked to be fighter, fighter-bomber, interceptor, and ground attack plane, the Fw 190 is, hands down, the better of the two.
 
After taking in what everyone has said so far about the FW-190, an underlying theme is beginning to emerge. Roughly two years after it's introduction the FW-190 was being tasked more and more as either a bomber interceptor or ground attack machine and mind you performed quite well at both of these tasks.

Be that as it may, I was wondering how many here feel that this takes away some of the credibility and luster that it garnered over the years, seeing that the general consensus on this forum is that shooting down lumbering bombers is a somewhat "easier" task than mixing it up with fast, agile enemy fighters (although I didn't actually crunch the numbers concerning opinions, just something I've noticed after reading assorted threads).

If this is actually true than shouldn't the BF-109 get way more credibility as a fighter, being forced to handle the enemy's more lethal adversaries, i.e. single-seat fighters, while the FW-190 got all the "gravy" by being able to target the slower, more vulnerable bombers? Opinions?
The Fw 190 was introduced in late 1941 at a time that must have been viewed later as its golden age. It outclassed the Spitfire MkV in the West and had no real competition in the East. However that changed very quickly. Barbarossa ground to a halt in the east and the war with Russia became a war of attrition with fronts not a Bltzkrieg war of fast manoeuvre. Just as the Fw190 was a new design so the allies had their new designs. The Typhoon was rushed forward in development, it was a match at low levels for the Fw. The Spitfire Mk V had the latest Merlin engine put into it this became the Mk IX which was actually less advanced than the Mk VII and VIII, this was superior to the FW190 in most respects. The Mustang Mk I had been ordered by the British and would arrive in 1942. Then the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour and Germany declared war on the USA. Soon P38s were arriving then P47s and later P51s along with four and twin engine bombers. In the east the Russians started introducing their own updated fighters like the Yak 7 and 9 which by the end of the war were formidable at low level where most fighting took place.

To survive attacking a bomber formation or ground target required increased armour and the FW 190 was more suited than the Me 109 due to its air cooled engine. However this becomes a disadvantage when escort fighters appear around the bombers or the air is full of enemy fighters near the ground. Shooting down a bomber requires a different weapon to that required for a fighter, the return fire and presence of escorts meant they had to be travelling so fast that they needed a weapon that destroyed the bomber with just a few hits, like large calibre cannon or rockets.

By 1944/45 the FW 190 had to deal with P47s,Tempests, Spitfires and Yak 9s at low level, P38s, P51s Spitfires P47s at high level while trying to attack 4 engine bomber formations bristling with 0.5 calibre guns or ground targets surrounded by soldiers with machine guns and dedicated AA guns. Whether it was better or worse than any or all of these in some or all situations became immaterial, it may have been able to shoot down a Sturmovik at will but there were 36,000 of them, same for the P39 with 9,600 made. When the P51 arrived it arrived with pilots too so the P47 didn't go away it went from escort fighter to ground attack.

The only two "weaknesses" I have read frequently about the Fw190 are the engines drop of in performance at high altitude and the aerodynamics of the wing resulting in a snap stall under heavy loading.
 
After taking in what everyone has said so far about the FW-190, an underlying theme is beginning to emerge. Roughly two years after it's introduction the FW-190 was being tasked more and more as either a bomber interceptor or ground attack machine and mind you performed quite well at both of these tasks.

Be that as it may, I was wondering how many here feel that this takes away some of the credibility and luster that it garnered over the years, seeing that the general consensus on this forum is that shooting down lumbering bombers is a somewhat "easier" task than mixing it up with fast, agile enemy fighters (although I didn't actually crunch the numbers concerning opinions, just something I've noticed after reading assorted threads).

If this is actually true than shouldn't the BF-109 get way more credibility as a fighter, being forced to handle the enemy's more lethal adversaries, i.e. single-seat fighters, while the FW-190 got all the "gravy" by being able to target the slower, more vulnerable bombers? Opinions?

Both Bf 109 and Fw 190 were tasked to kill both fighters and bombers. Fw 190 was usually carrying much bigger firepower, so it will be more suitable to go after bombers, being also better protected. The Bf 109 with extra cannons (= about equal the firepower of run-on-the-mill Fw 190) was not a single bit better performer than the Fw 190, while the Fw 190 still featuring better visibility and rate of roll.
 
Late 41- middle 42 very good, very dangerous
Middle 42- middle 43 Average
Middle 43 -middle 44 out classed
Middle 44- VE day shooting target

The Fw 190 is overated. The airframe was not particulary bad , but certain features crippled its performance
a)The BMW 801 was a terrible engine. Heavy, required c3 fuel and even then had a poor power to weight ratio, and above 6000m was tragic.
b) The wing was small for the weight of even the earlier versions. It suffered from deformation under stress giving violent high speed stall. It s airfoil was obsolete by 1943.No internal fuel tanks untill the very end
c) The armament in later versions was overkill and its weight further crippled performance
d) The surfaces building quality caused further performance loss. Heavy armor again reduced performance. Heavy radio/navigation equipment did not help . Inferior fuels did not help either.
e) The operational requirement that ,essentially a single air frame(A/F/G-8), perform every single mission, from high altitude combat to ground support , very naturally created an aircraft simply inferior.

The D series tried to restore some performance , but did not succeed. The wing was still the same, the engines were still single stage,C3 fuel was not available, and essential aerodynamic features of the aircraft could not be produced.Additional weight and drag was caused by the requirement for the "power egg", in order to make production easier

The Ta152 versions were again crippled by unreasonable requirements for heavy armament, still more armor, plus more fuel ,and still on B4 fuel.

In my opinion the Fw190 was not a good fighter after 1942 and does not deserve its fame
 
.... the above argument ignores the truth that in war you work with what you got ... or as George Patton said "the Best is the enemy of the Good".
Fw-190s were good enough to influence fighter AC design in the US, GB and the USSR. In the hands of determined German pilots they exacted serious punishment on the Soviet ground forces in the East and US heavy bomber fleet in the West.
Could you have done better with the young inexperienced pilots that were flying them by 1944? They could have been issued Mustangs and these young pilot would have suffered the same casualty rate, IMO.
 

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