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wiking85
Staff Sergeant
Wouldn't that require some structural strengthening?
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The P-38F -G were able to take off a 2x2000 lbs worth of extra fuel under the wings, or two 2000 lb torpedoes; 2x1325 HP for take off. The Fw-187 with Jumo 211F/J, or DB-601E/605A should be able to equal that payload. Such aircraft itself would've weighted less than P-38F/G/H.
True, Tomo, but we also don't know if the size and wing area would have changed when the Fw 187 gained the inevitable weight and went from Ferrari prototype to production workhorse with bigger, heavier engines and armament.
If it HAD gotten bigger, I feel it STILL would have been better than the 110, but I don't know by how much. One things I am sure of, the speed would NOT have been as good as the prototypes once in production ... it never is once everything is added and the producion fit finish are present, but it could sure start from a good point!
Empty weight: 3,700 kg (8,157 lb)
Loaded weight: 5,000 kg (11,023 lb)
But by mid-42, especially with the Me-210 industrial accident, there had to be an opportunity for men of decision...
True, Tomo, but we also don't know if the size and wing area would have changed when the Fw 187 gained the inevitable weight and went from Ferrari prototype to production workhorse with bigger, heavier engines and armament.
If it HAD gotten bigger, I feel it STILL would have been better than the 110, but I don't know by how much. One things I am sure of, the speed would NOT have been as good as the prototypes once in production ... it never is once everything is added and the producion fit finish are present, but it could sure start from a good point!
Wouldn't that require some structural strengthening?
Now as to the 1940 version the radio made no difference historically AFAIK. But in terms of ground attacks the lack of 20mm ammo relative to the Bf110 would be an issue, however a bomb rack equipped version would be pretty damn good at dive bombing and delivering pretty serious ordnance on to targets (IIRC being able to carry 6x 250kg bombs with the DB605, but probably even 4x 250kg bombs with the Db601).
The radio may not have been a big problem for the 109 but if you are planing to penetrate enemy air space by another several hundred kilometers beyond what the 109 could do the radio/s become increasingly important.
Four 7.9 mgs are certainly better than two but the often lambasted 110 carried 3 times the 20mm ammo per gun, at the cost of a second crewman. But then that is what the 2nd crewman in the first 400 Beaufighters did, change drums on the cannon, except he had four cannon to try to keep running (often an impossible task).
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May i extend the original question to inclunde this Machine? the Ta 154C4 sinlge Seat fighter. It should be very competitive with late P38s , altough the tricycle landing gear was Extra weight
It wasn't so much "politics" as it was RLM thinking of the day.The only problem was that it never became operational due to structural issues (not just the glue problem). The Fw187 was killed by politics, while the Ta-154 was put into production, but never was able to work out its issues.
Granted the Fw 187 would have been much more valuable than a 110 during the BoB against Spitfires.What s the benefit of heavy armament if the aircraft does not have the performance or agility to use it?
How useful was for the Bf110 the ability to reload the cannons since the aircraft could not get in firing position against a spitfire?( At least during a classical dogfight)
The Fw187 would have been extremely valuable durig BoB even with the short range radio. He would fight where the Bf109 fought for much longer time plus would reduce pilot loses because of the 2 engines safety
Granted the Fw 187 would have been much more valuable than a 110 during the BoB against Spitfires.
Trouble is the Spitfires only make up about 33-40% of the British fighters and if you are flying beyond London (like to Bristol, Manchester or Liverpool) having more than 7 seconds of cannon ammo might be handy.
7 seconds are enough to explode 2 hurricains and then still 4 mgs available concentrated in the nose
You also have the problem that the Fw 187 might not be so good at a number of other roles. Shipping strike, shipping protection (Norway convoys), photo recon (where do you stick the cameras without changing the fuel tanks?), ground attack (being able to reload guns in the air?),etc.
Those or missions that needed doing and were being done by 110s before the night fighter situation even comes up.
I could argue that the Fw187 could execute most of these missions . But even if the single Seat Fw 187 could not fullfil these missions, it would be enough to secure aerial superiority. Then various other LW aircraft could execute those missions. I would even say that it would be a luxury for the LW to use her best performing long range fighter for secondaries missions. The single absolutely most important Mission is Air superiority. Everything else is a next step. A single Seat ,DB601 equiped Fw 187 appears, on Paper, that would have helped the LW A LOT, in BoB ,in Meditterenean, and over the Biscay Bay
Granted the Fw 187 would have been much more valuable than a 110 during the BoB against Spitfires.
Trouble is the Spitfires only make up about 33-40% of the British fighters and if you are flying beyond London (like to Bristol, Manchester or Liverpool) having more than 7 seconds of cannon ammo might be handy.
You also have the problem that the Fw 187 might not be so good at a number of other roles. Shipping strike, shipping protection (Norway convoys), photo recon (where do you stick the cameras without changing the fuel tanks?), ground attack (being able to reload guns in the air?),etc.
Those or missions that needed doing and were being done by 110s before the night fighter situation even comes up.
Can't sya the Fw 187 could achieve air superiority unless we know the numbers avaiable. If they had, say, 43 (like the full production run of Ta 152's) then they'd be a non-factor. If they had maybe 350+, perhaps it would have been a different story.
I'm unconvinced the Nazis could have completed quantity production before the BOB. Makes for a good "what if" though, doesn't it?
7 seconds are enough to explode 2 hurricains and then still 4 mgs available concentrated in the nose
I could argue that the Fw187 could execute most of these missions . But even if the single Seat Fw 187 could not fullfil these missions, it would be enough to secure aerial superiority. Then various other LW aircraft could execute those missions. I would even say that it would be a luxury for the LW to use her best performing long range fighter for secondaries missions. The single absolutely most important Mission is Air superiority. Everything else is a next step. A single Seat ,DB601 equiped Fw 187 appears, on Paper, that would have helped the LW A LOT, in BoB ,in Meditterenean, and over the Biscay Bay