P-39 Expert
Non-Expert
Most AAF/USN fighters had their wing 50cals harmonized at 300-350 yards.
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Most AAF/USN fighters had their wing 50cals harmonized at 300-350 yards.First of all, 200 yards is 600 feet or roughly an eighth of a mile - this is a distance where many fighters engaged.
They didn't stand off and shoot laser beams at five miles.
As for the piddly .30 caliber, the Axis types claimed thousands of Allied air craft with their piddly 7mm MGs.
The British held the Luftwaffe at bay with their piddly .303s during the Battle of Britain.
So why was that?
Did it possess a mystical P-39ish power that defies physics?
Or was it simply because a .30/7mm round will pass through wood, aluminum skin, glass and human bodies at ranges over 3,000 feet.
And entire world war was being fought with .30/7mm weapons before the US entered. They just didn't sit around for four years (in the Orient) and two years (in Europe) wondering what they could use to shoot down an enemy aircraft - the .50 delivered a harder punch, doing more damage for each round delivered, yes, but just because an aircraft was armed with them, didn't mean it had invincibility.
A KI-43 could shoot down a P-40 armed with .50MGs just as easy as it xould shoot down a P-40 armed with .30MGs.
Regarding the .30 armed P-40, there were several hundred manufactured (not including exports) before the D model.
They saw action at Pearl Harbor, the Philippines and other areas of the Pacific.
The SBD was one of the first US aircraft to be designed and built with the .50MG as it's armament (two in the cowl). Up to that point, it was common for fighters to have a mix of one .30 and one .50 OR being being solely armed by .30s, which, prior to WWII, was a world standard.
Your weight and balance spreadsheet was much more useful.OK, back from a week in Las Vegas. Boy, was it hot!
From a couple of days back, I posted something that got some good reactions because I used a Monty Python Shakspearian type insult for the P-39. Now, as promised, you, too, can insult people and airplanes with aplomb.
I offer this spreadsheet. either pick one choice from each of three columns or follow the instruction to generate a random insult. This is not password protected, but insult away at your own risk. I assume no liability for your musings using this handy insult reference.
Enjoy, you loggerheaded clay-brained malt-worm! That insult was from inputting 24, 7, 33 into the inputs after you enable editing.
I have another spreadsheet for coming up with proposal buzzwords.
For instance, if I input a 3-digit number, say ... 257 ... into the buzzword spreadsheet, I get "systematized logistical projection." It is a phrase that can be dropped into virtually any report with that ring of decisive knowledgeable authority. No one will have the remotest idea of what you are talking about, but the important thing is THEY ARE NOT ABOUT TO ADMIT IT.
I attached it, too. Enjoy, and don't get fired using this crap. It's all for fun only.
I thought the heating system was for the guns as well as the pilot?Ducted air heating system was present on the P-39D.
Regarding your last paragraph, the ducted air heat system on the domestic models was much superior to the gas fueled system on the export models so it was discontinued. For impact on frozen pilots, see the P-38.
I'm simply using the Flight Operation Instruction Chart according to the directions provided. "If the original flight plan calls for a mission with changes in power or speed the flight should be broken down into a series of individual short flights and then added together to make up the total flight and it's requirements." 20 minutes of combat would be at a higher power setting and 20 minute reserve for landing would be at a lower power setting.I stopped debating flight manual charts with you because you don't now how to use them properly and refuse to listen to people on here who are actual pilots and flown real airplanes, and I don't want to continually bang my head against the wall. There is no "combat reserve" or "landing reserve," that is calculated within your flight planning. A 30 or 45 minute reserve is what is normally planned into a mission should something happen and you have to extend. It's quite obvious that many missions were flown well into the reserve calculation.
I'm not going to debate this with you!!!!
To the other members partaking in these discussions, any "calculations" our friend here comes up with regards to flight planning and using flight manual charts, I would really double check if you have access to the data/ flight manual.
The convergence points varied greatly, depending on type, mission, weapon arrangement, theater and time period.Most AAF/USN fighters had their wing 50cals harmonized at 300-350 yards.
Ducted air heating system was present on the P-39D…the ducted air heat system on the domestic models was much superior to the gas fueled system on the export models so it was discontinued.
Using a P-39N with 120gal internal and 110gal drop tank (230gal) deduct 20gal for takeoff and climb, 25gal for 20min combat at 25000' and 10gal for 20min landing reserve at 5000'. The remaining 175gal (cruise) is divided by 62gallons per hour giving a flight time of 2.8hrs multiplied by 276mphTAS = 772mi. Half that is the combat radius 385mi. Be conservative and say 370mi. For perspective Berlin was 520mi.Okay, here's what I'm trying to figure out. Remember the map of Europe posted once, having concentric circles indicating fighter escort ranges? Had it been there, how far would the semi circle go for the the P-39? Say mid 1943.
your calculation is fault, you can not choice when drop the tank, at best it's just before of fight, so 120-55=65 so your radius is around 1 hour, if you are not attacked beforeUsing a P-39N with 120gal internal and 110gal drop tank (230gal) deduct 20gal for takeoff and climb, 25gal for 20min combat at 25000' and 10gal for 20min landing reserve at 5000'. The remaining 175gal (cruise) is divided by 62gallons per hour giving a flight time of 2.8hrs multiplied by 276mphTAS = 772mi. Half that is the combat radius 385mi. Be conservative and say 370mi. For perspective Berlin was 520mi.
This is carrying the drop tank the whole mission. If the tank is dropped then cruising speed increases to 350mph at the same power (62gph) and range increases accordingly.
There is NO "RESERVE" for landing - that part of the flight is factored into the entire flight plan unless you intend to fly at military power over the field for 20 minutes (or whatever your emergency reserve is, usually 30 to 45 minutes). Pilot 101, or in your case "Joe Pilot".I'm simply using the Flight Operation Instruction Chart according to the directions provided. "If the original flight plan calls for a mission with changes in power or speed the flight should be broken down into a series of individual short flights and then added together to make up the total flight and it's requirements." 20 minutes of combat would be at a higher power setting and 20 minute reserve for landing would be at a lower power setting.
I really don't understand what there is to debate.
It was, heated cockpit air was ducted from the rudder pedal wells up to blow directly on the cannon and twin 50calMGs and then exhausted through the small exit ducts near the nose. Very efficient system.I thought the heating system was for the guns as well as the pilot?
I hope you forward this to your opponent as your terms of engagement. What are your cruising figures at 25,000ft and how long does it take to get there? P-39 Performance TestsUsing a P-39N with 120gal internal and 110gal drop tank (230gal) deduct 20gal for takeoff and climb, 25gal for 20min combat at 25000' and 10gal for 20min landing reserve at 5000'. The remaining 175gal (cruise) is divided by 62gallons per hour giving a flight time of 2.8hrs multiplied by 276mphTAS = 772mi. Half that is the combat radius 385mi. Be conservative and say 370mi. For perspective Berlin was 520mi.
This is carrying the drop tank the whole mission. If the tank is dropped then cruising speed increases to 350mph at the same power (62gph) and range increases accordingly.
There is a reserve for landing in case the base is closed by weather or the pilot becomes lost. And 10 gallons of fuel certainly won't let the pilot cruise at low altitude at military power for 20 minutes. How is landing the plane factored into the entire flight plan without creating a reserve for that section of the flight?There is NO "RESERVE" for landing - that part of the flight is factored into the entire flight plan unless you intend to fly at military power over the field for 20 minutes (or whatever your emergency reserve is, usually 30 to 45 minutes). Pilot 101, or in your case "Joe Pilot".
"reserve" "tail cone" "in balance" "Joe pilot" Groundhog jargon.
You're right, there is nothing to debate
Certainly ANY fighter with external tanks must return early if forced to drop the tanks before their fuel is exhausted.your calculation is fault, you can not choice when drop the tank, at best it's just before of fight, so 120-55=65 so your radius is around 1 hour, if you are not attacked before
I wasn't debating I was pointing out that your armchair flight training is once again wrong.There is a reserve for landing in case the base is closed by weather or the pilot becomes lost. And 10 gallons of fuel certainly won't let the pilot cruise at low altitude at military power for 20 minutes. How is landing the plane factored into the entire flight plan without creating a reserve for that section of the flight?
I thought we weren't going to debate this anymore.
but in your example the tank is too large for the internal fuel available, the tank is usable only for the cruise in, a tanker larger of 70 gal for the P-39 with 120 gals, if your info on the consume are right, is useless, is a waste of fuelCertainly ANY fighter with external tanks must return early if forced to drop the tanks before their fuel is exhausted.
I dont think there can be any doubt now that you are just trolling. The maximum speed of the P-39N was about 375MPH, its cruising speed at 15,000ft cruising altitude was 250MPH, Your consumption in cruise at 62gph is only marginally less than your combat 25 gals in 20 mins that is 75gph. most engines used circa 3 times the fuel on max power that they used in cruise.This is carrying the drop tank the whole mission. If the tank is dropped then cruising speed increases to 350mph at the same power (62gph) and range increases accordingly.
Using a P-39N with 120gal internal and 110gal drop tank (230gal) deduct 20gal for takeoff and climb, 25gal for 20min combat at 25000' and 10gal for 20min landing reserve at 5000'. The remaining 175gal (cruise) is divided by 62gallons per hour giving a flight time of 2.8hrs multiplied by 276mphTAS = 772mi. Half that is the combat radius 385mi. Be conservative and say 370mi. For perspective Berlin was 520mi.
This is carrying the drop tank the whole mission. If the tank is dropped then cruising speed increases to 350mph at the same power (62gph) and range increases accordingly.