Groundhog Thread v. 2.0 - The most important battle of WW2

[SaparotRob]

I like this guy. I never let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

 

[buffnut453]

I like this guy. I never let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

Please show me the good narrative. I'm still hunting for it.

 

[SaparotRob]

I never said his narrative.

 

[Glider]

Yes there was a lot more, but I replied not to what was not said,but to what was argued and to those who used the CH radar as argument .
The RAF Museum said clearly the following : once the German bombers crossed the coastline,they were unsighted by radar .
This debunks the claims of the pivotal importance of radar .
If you disagree with what the RAF Museum said , you have to give your reasons why the RAF Museum was wrong and not to use attacks ad hominem .

Interestingly no one has denied that once the Luftwaffe had got past the radars they were not visible on the radar screens. What we have all said is that once they were past the radar the observer corps picked them up and they were tracked.

Your logic is very simple and priceless in its ignorance.

Question If the radar was useless and the Germans could pick targets at will, Why did they lose?

 

[Peter Gunn]

BTW, I just found out today by re reading the RADAR pages that the CH stations could detect inland. The first task of an operator when detecting a new echo was to verify which side of the aerials it came from. Those on the land side were ignored.

Quote
The routine of establishing a new track was quite complex. If the operator noticed a new echo, which would first show as a tiny break in the noise, she would at once 'sense' it to determine that it was in fact in front of the station before announcing 'I have a new echo at such and such a range'. She would then sense again, to determine whether the target was north or south of the 'line of shoot'. She would then attempt, by swinging the gonio for a minimum, to take a bearing, and then a height.

Clearly you (and the RADAR pages re: CH) are wrong! Don't believe me? I have it on good authority... here... let me quote my source...

*SNIP*

Radar did not give direction, height, speed, number of aircraft, or even if the aircraft were bombers or fighters .

 

[pbehn]

Interestingly no one has denied that once the Luftwaffe had got past the radars they were not visible on the radar screens. What we have all said is that once they were past the radar the observer corps picked them up and they were tracked.

What surprises me is the constant stating that CH RADAR didnt give speed and bearing. No RADAR does, it is a calculation, today the calculation is instantaneous, but it is still calculated from successive readings. Same with size of the force, modern RADARs have much better resolution, but I doubt they would state exactly what a Red Arrows formation was at 100 miles.

 

[GrauGeist]

Clearly you (and the RADAR pages re: CH) are wrong! Don't believe me? I have it on good authority... here... let me quote my source...

Don't you know that RADAR is only good for warming leftovers from dinner last night?

 

[pbehn]

Don't you know that RADAR is only good for warming leftovers from dinner last night?

I use it to warm up my tin foil hat.

 

[buffnut453]

The aliens stole my tinfoil hat....or maybe it was the government.

 

[pbehn]

The aliens stole my tinfoil hat....or maybe it was the government.

Just get a microchip, you'll be fine.

 

[buffnut453]

Just get a microchip, you'll be fine.

I've had my COVID jabs so I think I have the microchip covered...and the resultant "magnetic arm syndrome."

 

[pbehn]

I've had my COVID jabs so I think I have the microchip covered...and the resultant "magnetic arm syndrome."

Happily, my chip has some PDF files on Chain Home, its a real win-win

 

[GrauGeist]

Not dropping any names, but this is the image I conjure while learning all this "new and amazing" information about British radar...

 

[buffnut453]

Not dropping any names, but this is the image I conjure while learning all this "new and amazing" information about British radar...

View attachment 627488

HEY!!!! How did you find that photo of me at my 6th birthday? Enquiring minds want to know!!!!

 

[ljadw]

Pretty much every statement in that post is complete and utter garbage. The Luftwaffe NEVER had air superiority over the Channel. They were never able to operate freely over the Channel except close to the French coast.

Regardless, what does air superiority over the Channel have to do with the UK's ability to rescue downed pilots? Have you ever heard of these things - apparently they were rather successful:

View attachment 627481


You say there was danger for British fighters being bounced over the Channel...but that's EXACTLY where the UK's "useless" radar was looking, and the air defence network could warn any formation before being bounced.

Radius of action for British and German fighters may have been limited (compared to the later P-51, for example) but it wasn't so short that operations couldn't be maintained over the Channel.

This is ridiculous, are you saying the British built and manned an early warning system and then sat back to see what happens if you dont use the information? Interceptions happened BEFORE the attack crossed the coast, after passing the line of CH stations they were reported by the Observer Corps. The information from both was combined by the operations filter room AS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD.

After August 18 interceptions did not happen before the attack crossed the coasts , because on August 19 Dowding himself restricted interceptions to targets inland or within gliding distance of the coast.
Source : Eagle in Flames P 16 .

 

[buffnut453]

After August 18 interceptions did not happen before the attack crossed the coasts , because on August 19 Dowding himself restricted interceptions to targets inland or within gliding distance of the coast.
Source : Eagle in Flames P 16 .

Who frigging cares? "Within gliding distance" is still over the sea, and even if the interceptions were over land, Fighter Command still needed to know the attack was coming, which depended heavily on radar.

For pity's sake, give up this nonsense.

 

[ljadw]

Originally, Hitler thought that the UK would become a "reliable" neutral; when its government decided that Germany was an existential threat, and the UK seriously resisted, Hitler's new policy was closer to extermination.



I've read that the Luftwaffe had a much better-organized search-and-rescue service, at least initially, but the British got better fairly quickly.

Until late August,the British had no air-sea rescue operation.( Eagle in Flames P 16 )

 

[pbehn]

After August 18 interceptions did not happen before the attack crossed the coasts , because on August 19 Dowding himself restricted interceptions to targets inland or within gliding distance of the coast.
Source : Eagle in Flames P 16 .

Yes, that was his decision, because pilots are more important than planes, he also instructed pilots not to chase the LW back to France. The 18 August is known as "the hardest day" having the biggest losses on both sides. Within gliding distance of the coast is a long way at 25,000ft.

 

[pbehn]

Until late August,the British had no air-sea rescue operation.( Eagle in Flames P 16 )

When did German Air-Sea rescue start?

 

[SaparotRob]

When did German Air-Sea rescue start?

When did German Air-Sea rescue start?

I'm guessing you kind of already know.