Gunther Rall vs. Zemke's Wolfpack

[Gnomey]

Second what Dan is saying. Thanks for clearing everything up about this fantastic piece of artwork.

 

[Haztoys]

Great work John ... If Mr Rall is not sure what color the spiner was then why should anyone care ...

And ........Real man say when they have won a battle in life ..And real men say when they have had there a$$ handed to them in a battle and lost...What Rall win 275 time and lost what 6 times shot down ...I would kill for a racing numbers like that ...LOL

I race motorcycles (dirt and tarmac) and rally cars all my life and still do ...I can not real remember all the wins ... But the times "I've gone to the ditch" sure stay in my head...I remember the big bang and the glass flying and all..LOL

I can see were he's coming from... I have no shame in losing the battles I've lost ...Because I have pride in having anuff nuts to get in the battle to start with...

You win some and you loose some ...

 

[Amsel]

Those men are of the greatest generation. Thank you Mr. Shaw for you interesting remarks.

 

[Njaco]

Thank you Mr. Shaw. Truly an excellent piece of artwork! And welcome to the forum!

 

[Burmese Bandit]

JOHN SHAW HIMSELF came to post on this one! WOO EEEE!!!!

Is this the greatest warbird forum or WHAT!!!???!!!???

 

[KrazyKraut]

Udet - maybe another way to look at it is that a.) he was shot down so few times that it was far more memorable than his 275 kills, and b.) it effectively put him out of the war until nearly the end..

I have met and talked to him - typical fighter pilot with GREAT sense of humor, cocky and just a great guy to talk to.

here are some of the pics I took of him some 20 years ago in Phoenix

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/fighter-aces-german-visitors-1984-a-9215.html



Regards,

Bill

I bet Rall is popular with the Ladies. He reminds me of Roger Moore somehow.

 

[109ROAMING]

Awesome piece of work John ! and Welcome!

 

[comiso90]

Welcome John... You used to live in Clovis, CA... right?

 

[Erich]

viewing war time pics of Bf 109G's of II./JG 11 during this time frame I stick 100 % with my conclusion on the nose spiral. it would of be literally insane at this stage of the game to have a CO of a gruppe or Kommodore of a JG to put up anything "special" in the way of markings to single himself out in the air unless the man was covered in selfish pride. Rall was not in this category ........

 

[comiso90]

viewing war time pics of Bf 109G's of II./JG 11 during this time frame I stick 100 % with my conclusion on the nose spiral. it would of be literally insane at this stage of the game to have a CO of a gruppe or Kommodore of a JG to put up anything "special" in the way of markings to single himself out in the air unless the man was covered in selfish pride. Rall was not in this category ........

What about Hartman's Black Tulip?

 

[Erich]

what about it ? he and Graf had tulips and they were not alone in JG 52, besides they were on the East front. In July 1944 there was a written order that the Spiralschnauze was to be standard on Western Front fighters as a recognition/ID marking, and I also understand full well when Rall was hit and shot down in the time frame.

 

[comiso90]

what about it ?

I was asking and you answered my question.

 

[kettbo]

I am looking for more info on the 12 May 44 action.
A gaming scenario in OVER THE REICH by J D Webster lists 7x 109G-10 vs 3x P-47D-23 near Frankfurt
Further, after several 2 plane passes, Gunter Rall downs a P-47 2x with two solo passes. The final P-47 is Zemke who power dives away.
Any verification here? Details? Thanks in advance

 

[Ratsel]

On 12th May while flying Bf 109 G-5 "Schwarz << +", W.Nr.110 089, of Stab II./JG 11, he nearly succeeded in downing the commander of the famed 56th FG, Lt Col Hubert Zemke (17 3/4 v., POW 30/10/44), and did succeed in destroying two Thunderbolts of this unit. However, he himself was bounced by another pair of P-47s from this same unit and was shot down and forced to bail out over Frankfurt / Main, in the process having his left thumb shot off.

In Hienz Knoke's book "I flew for the Fuhrer: Story of a German Airman", Knoke states that Günther Specht was responsible for saving General Rall's life, by circling Rall as he floated to earth shooting at any allied aircraft that came close. With that, on On 15 May 1944, Major Specht became Kommodore of JG 11. IIRC.

Hope this helps.

 

[kettbo]

Any identities of these P-47 pilots? Their fates?

 

[Ratsel]

Rall shot down Jack Green from 62nd (confirmed can't recall the other) and Powers and his wingman bounced General Rall. Shared.

 

[phas3e]

My take on it, using IL2 and some photoshop

 

[Ratsel]

My take on it, using IL2 and some photoshop

Nice!
Theres a 47 in front of me, this is of Günther Specht who was in the area.

But alas off too church this morning to remember those that have fallen..

 

[Erich]

when I interviewed Rall some years ago he told me he got himself in an uncompromising position there were just too many T-Bolts, he mentioned as he thought at least 4 Bolts were on his tail and anyone of them could of delivered the fatal blow to his 109 and him. He was fortunate enough to only lose a thumb.

Remember those that have fallen . . . . ..

 

[bobbysocks]

there was a military channel series..."Mission's that changed the war"..."Germany's last great ace" was all about Rall. what ever your take on history/military channel it has a lot of interview footage. Rall believes Shorty Rankin was the one who shot off his thumb. i dont know how they came up with this but if you can pull up the shows its might be worth a watch..

here's the eaa link that has a couple of good interviews.

2009 - 10/06 - Famed German Ace Gunther Rall Passes Away