Hawker Typhoon loss rates?
- Thread starter Jabberwocky
- Start date
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Colin1
Senior Master Sergeant
...is the correct answer, a fine book
Some details, if anyone's interested:
The Typhoon Tempest Story
Chris Thomas Christopher Shores
Arms and Armour Press
ISBN 0 85368 878 8
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Colin1
Senior Master Sergeant
It was a bitAwesome effort, Colin1
Made easier by 'borrowing' a decent scanner - which only made me realise that I had to start again. This morning I was having to cut pages in two as they wouldn't fit inside my own scanner's range
The companion book would be:
The Hawker Typhoon and Tempest
Francis K Mason
ISBN 0-946627-19-3
In 23 pages of the book, it gives the history of just about every Typhoon and Tempest.
Colin1
Senior Master Sergeant
So reading it by pages
1. 41-42; 15 losses to engine failure; 3 losses to structural failure; 1 loss to carbon monoxide poisoning
2. 43; 21 losses to engine failure; 5 losses to structural failure
3. 43; 20 losses to engine failure; 4 losses to structural failure
4. 43; 13 losses to engine failure; 2 losses to structural failure
5. 43; 8 losses to engine failure; 2 losses to structural failure
6. 43; 9 losses to engine failure
7. 44; 21 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to structural failure
8. 44; 17 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to structural failure
9. 44; 8 losses to engine failure
10. 44; 7 losses to engine failure
11. 44; 9 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to engine failure
12. 44; 10 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to engine failure
12a. 44; 13 losses to engine failure
14. 44-45; 4 losses to engine failure
15. 45; 28 losses to engine failure
16. 45; 15 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to structural failure
17. 45; 27 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to structural failure
18. 45; 18 losses to engine failure; 2 losses to structural failure
So round about 250 a/c lost before enemy action between 1941 and 1945. The engine failure problem, far from going away, seemed to spike quite alarmingly toward the end of the Typhoon's career. Structural failures seemed to peak, die away but never quite disappear.
At roughly 90 entries per page, with above losses similarly averaged, that's 16% of all aircraft per page lost before even seeing the Luftwaffe. This does not include n/k's (not knowns) or ftr's (failed to returns).
Do you think we'll ever see an airworthy Typhoon at air shows and if so, who'd fly it?
1. 41-42; 15 losses to engine failure; 3 losses to structural failure; 1 loss to carbon monoxide poisoning
2. 43; 21 losses to engine failure; 5 losses to structural failure
3. 43; 20 losses to engine failure; 4 losses to structural failure
4. 43; 13 losses to engine failure; 2 losses to structural failure
5. 43; 8 losses to engine failure; 2 losses to structural failure
6. 43; 9 losses to engine failure
7. 44; 21 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to structural failure
8. 44; 17 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to structural failure
9. 44; 8 losses to engine failure
10. 44; 7 losses to engine failure
11. 44; 9 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to engine failure
12. 44; 10 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to engine failure
12a. 44; 13 losses to engine failure
14. 44-45; 4 losses to engine failure
15. 45; 28 losses to engine failure
16. 45; 15 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to structural failure
17. 45; 27 losses to engine failure; 1 loss to structural failure
18. 45; 18 losses to engine failure; 2 losses to structural failure
So round about 250 a/c lost before enemy action between 1941 and 1945. The engine failure problem, far from going away, seemed to spike quite alarmingly toward the end of the Typhoon's career. Structural failures seemed to peak, die away but never quite disappear.
At roughly 90 entries per page, with above losses similarly averaged, that's 16% of all aircraft per page lost before even seeing the Luftwaffe. This does not include n/k's (not knowns) or ftr's (failed to returns).
Do you think we'll ever see an airworthy Typhoon at air shows and if so, who'd fly it?
Colin1
Senior Master Sergeant
I have that one too
MikeGazdik
Senior Airman
Colin1
Senior Master Sergeant
Typhoons only
ER Hooton, Eagle in Flames gives German front line losses not to enemy action, 2nd quarter 1941 to 2nd quarter 1944 as 7,614 aircraft. Losses to enemy action over the same period were 26,852 aircraft. That's about 22% of aircraft lost not to enemy action, although that might include missing aircraft where the cause wasn't established. We need sortie data for a proper comparison, though.
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fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
I have read that for every aircraft lost to enemy fire 2 were lost for various other reasons.
An example was my Mothers cousin he flew his Hurricane in the last weeks of the Battle of Britain, went on Rhubarb ops over France and flew his Spitfire from Malta during the invasion of Sicily. He came out of these without a scratch but lost his life delivering a brand new Spitfire MkV from Malta to Sicily. His engine failed on approach and he didnt make it as far as the runway.
An example was my Mothers cousin he flew his Hurricane in the last weeks of the Battle of Britain, went on Rhubarb ops over France and flew his Spitfire from Malta during the invasion of Sicily. He came out of these without a scratch but lost his life delivering a brand new Spitfire MkV from Malta to Sicily. His engine failed on approach and he didnt make it as far as the runway.
Colin1
Senior Master Sergeant
Not to enemy action
but how many to engine failure?
Shortround6
Major General
I have read that the Sabre engine didn't like the dirt/dust of the forward airfields in Europe at the end of the war. A filter was quickly devised but maybe it wasn't quite as effective as hoped?
In any case it might mean that the later engine failures were from a different cause than the early engine failures.
That could be true. A quick run through the list of Tempest losses for e/f has:
month - 44 - 45
Jan - * - 1
Feb - * - 8
Mar - * - 8
Apr - 2 - 9
May - 1 - 3
Jun - 1
Jul - 5
Aug - 1
Sep - 7
Oct - 4
Nov - 5
Dec - 4
Glider
Captain
My understanding is that the first filter didn't work to well as when the engine backfired it wrecked the filter. A modified filter with doors was designed which solved the problem as when the engine backfired the door on the filter opened letting the air out without causing any damage.
