he 162 salamander

[delcyros]

From some points the glider behaves more like a jet than a pison engined plane: no torque, smooth maneuvering and so on...
However, none of the pilots to fly the Salamander was a Hitler Youth memeber or anyone less qualified. I believe the JG 400 should also overturn some He-162 but this plan was dropped. Interesting that the Me-163 pilots needed additional glider training.

 

[Henk]

Yep, if they first had a prop to practice in it would be OK but jumping from no powerd aircraft into a jet aircraft is insane!

Henk

 

[me262]

...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I've flown T-33s, L-29s and Fouga Magisters - they performed like early Jets - here's a rule of thumb...

They are hard to slow down and take a while to spool up - get behind one (low and slow) and you're dead!

For some one to jump into one of these from a sailplane without a structured syllabus that ensures some credible experience would almost be suicide...

 

[delcyros]

Most of the Luftwaffe Experten (Galland, Mölders) had glider experience. I can imagine that glider pilots without prop experiences wouldn´t try to haul the plane around and make rapid throttle setting changes like the others. Energy tactics can be deployed by them quickly as well, it already lies in the nature of gliding. It´s not suicide as long as they want to stay alive and engage only at favourable terms.
Of course, they still need extensive training and good leadership. The reported short conversion training times for He-162 pilots were all for pilots WITH flight and combat experience in prop driven planes.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap because most of them were part of the pre Luftwaffe German Flying Club and they flew gliders in that.

 

[Twitch]

EVERY Luftwaffe pilot in service in 1940 had glider experience. It was THE aviation pass time of the 1930s. What's more, several aircraft designs were initially tested in glider form too.

 

[Smokey]

I've mentioned this before, but this planned version of the He 162 looks intriguing

http://www.luft46.com/ghart/gh162d.html

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Its sexy eneogh.

 

[Gnomey]

Its sexy eneogh.

Yep!

 

[delcyros]

Not for me, gents.
I wouldn´t like the worse forcedynamics of a forward swept wing, remember the Ju-287, worse aeroelastics if I recall correctly.
The A6 subtype looks great and the He-162 C (resp. -D there are problems with the designations: if HeS011 driven is -B then forward swept is -C and positive sweep is -D, otherwise it is called -C) with swept back wings would look sexy, too...

 

[Smokey]

The swept wing version would be nice since experience from the Me 262 could be used

 

[Henk]

I must say the normal He-162 looks better for me, but the forward swept wing He-162 does have its good things when it comes to looks.

Henk

 

[Twitch]

The reason for the proposed forward sweep was to raise the low critical Mach number. The Russians seemed to be on top of all with all the work they did with the Ju 287 and offsprings over the years?!

Ef-140

 

[delcyros]

The forward swept wing had another advantage: while swept back wings loose efficiancy at low speeds (especially at stall speeds), the forwards swept wing will remain controllability even at very high angle´s of attack. The lift at low speed is better, too. The Ju-287 test reports confirmed this but for some worrisome aeroelastic problems. The lates Junkers designs (Ju-EF132) under german controll showed against the swept back wing layout.

 

[Erich]

this mention actually goes with the 262 variants but the Welter group was going to strip a 262 and put forward cants on that puppy. they had already experimented with the AR 234 and their was a good feeling about it due to the long narrow streamlined shape but initially the impression was total blindness from city fires because of literally too much glas in the pilots face. the changes were subtle and Arado never did put in a firm bid with the Messerch. 262 for the nf, even after refocusing the attention of where to put the cockpit armor and guns, ammo packs besides the inclusion of radar though the internal AI dish seemed to work in excellent form in later experiments.

sorry if this is a tad bit tweed

 

[Twitch]

Check out the X-29 reference to the Ju- 287 http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/x-29.htm I saw this fly around Edwards during tests.

 

[Glider]

If I remember my aerodynamics lessons another advantage of forward swept wings was a reduction in Induced drag. It was a long time ago now and could well be wrong on that.

 

[delcyros]

Indeed this is the case. Since the airfoil is getting thinner at the wingtips and airflow is more directed inwardly the wingtip drag is reduced, particularly compared to swept forward wings. Good memory, Glider.