Help. Im beginer. Not sure how to paint
- Thread starter Justine
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
There should never be a problem painting a further coat of enamel paint over a previous coat. In fact, it's normally better to apply two or perhaps three, thin coats, rather than one 'heavy' coat, and this is 'standard practice' among many, including professional painters, decorators and modellers etc.
Looking at the car photos, my first impression is that the paint has been been sprayed too heavily, and too close, possibly going over the entire model with more than one pass, resulting in too much paint in one go. When spraying, and particularly when using a spray can, it's always a good idea to build-up the paint coverage with multiple, light coats, allowing each coat to at least be 'touch dry' before applying the next coat.
The first coat may look uneven and patchy, but this will begin to develop into an even, smooth finish with the following coats, and once the entire area looks smooth and even, then it's done - this might take two, three or more coats, probably just two or three, depending on the colour of the surface being painted, and the colour and type of paint.
Thinking about the problem you had when brush painting, that sounds rather as if the pant hasn't been stirred thoroughly before use.
Regardless of the type of paint being used, for example, enamels or acrylics, they will always need stirring before use, and sometimes during use, if this is prolonged.
This is because the pigments, the materials which give the actual colour shade, are 'suspended' in what's called a 'carrier', which allows the paint to be applied and flow easily. With enamel paints, this is basically a light oil, and with acrylics it's an acrylic synthetic material or water-based material. When stored, the pigments 'settle out', partially separating from the 'carrier', and will settle in the bottom of the tin or jar.
Check this when you first open a paint jar or tin, and you should see that the surface of the paint, for some depth, is 'thinner', and maybe even a different colour, or even virtually clear liquid, whilst the bottom of the tin or jar will contain a thicker sediment, sometimes almost like tar, which is the pigment concentrated in just a small proportion of the 'carrier'.
Stir this 'mix', gently at first, until the entire container is equal in appearance and viscosity or 'thickness' - this could take anywhere between a couple of minutes, and ten or more minutes, depending on the type and colour of paint, and how long it's been sitting on the shelf.
For brush painting, have a look at the 'guide' I posted a few years ago - "Guide to brush painting" - in the modelling threads, I think under 'Painting questions'.
Hope this helps.
Looking at the car photos, my first impression is that the paint has been been sprayed too heavily, and too close, possibly going over the entire model with more than one pass, resulting in too much paint in one go. When spraying, and particularly when using a spray can, it's always a good idea to build-up the paint coverage with multiple, light coats, allowing each coat to at least be 'touch dry' before applying the next coat.
The first coat may look uneven and patchy, but this will begin to develop into an even, smooth finish with the following coats, and once the entire area looks smooth and even, then it's done - this might take two, three or more coats, probably just two or three, depending on the colour of the surface being painted, and the colour and type of paint.
Thinking about the problem you had when brush painting, that sounds rather as if the pant hasn't been stirred thoroughly before use.
Regardless of the type of paint being used, for example, enamels or acrylics, they will always need stirring before use, and sometimes during use, if this is prolonged.
This is because the pigments, the materials which give the actual colour shade, are 'suspended' in what's called a 'carrier', which allows the paint to be applied and flow easily. With enamel paints, this is basically a light oil, and with acrylics it's an acrylic synthetic material or water-based material. When stored, the pigments 'settle out', partially separating from the 'carrier', and will settle in the bottom of the tin or jar.
Check this when you first open a paint jar or tin, and you should see that the surface of the paint, for some depth, is 'thinner', and maybe even a different colour, or even virtually clear liquid, whilst the bottom of the tin or jar will contain a thicker sediment, sometimes almost like tar, which is the pigment concentrated in just a small proportion of the 'carrier'.
Stir this 'mix', gently at first, until the entire container is equal in appearance and viscosity or 'thickness' - this could take anywhere between a couple of minutes, and ten or more minutes, depending on the type and colour of paint, and how long it's been sitting on the shelf.
For brush painting, have a look at the 'guide' I posted a few years ago - "Guide to brush painting" - in the modelling threads, I think under 'Painting questions'.
Hope this helps.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume he paints in the old way. No thinning. Bottle of thick Testors enamel, brush, that's it! No prep. "Wham, Bam, Thank ya Ma'am!" Build a model in a couple of days and move on to something else. That's the way most people used to do it that I knew. They were toys to us, not art. It all depends upon what you want in the end. I split the difference.
Justine,
Now I can see what is going on. Judging by your pics the problem is either with the paints ( being old or stirred wrongly ) or you spray them in the dusty room from incorrect distance. Also the paint layer seems to be too thick. Try to apply two or three thinner ones rather . Not sure but it seems that the best way to get it sorted out , is to change the paint ( use another can ). The Chrome should look like that one IMHO...
Now I can see what is going on. Judging by your pics the problem is either with the paints ( being old or stirred wrongly ) or you spray them in the dusty room from incorrect distance. Also the paint layer seems to be too thick. Try to apply two or three thinner ones rather . Not sure but it seems that the best way to get it sorted out , is to change the paint ( use another can ). The Chrome should look like that one IMHO...
fubar57
General
As you can see there are people here that will help you sort things out. I think before you tackle that large model go with something smaller first as others have suggested. You've already bought two 1:48 scale kits so lets stick with that scale for a bit. For ease of build you can't go wrong with a Tamiya kit. The newest versions are pretty expensive so check out eBay. There's nothing wrong with supporting LHS but if you're like me the closest one is a 4 hour round trip. Once you've your kit come back to the site and create a "Start to Finish" thread. Read the instructions and then before committing to glue and paint....start asking questions. No one here will call you down even if the question has been asked a dozen times before. This site has the friendliest bunch of modellers I've seen and I belong to a few different sites. These guys are some of the most knowledgeable as well. Keep in mind though that with many little helpers you could get a few different responses and you can then go by "mob rules" or do some research as well. Any kit you choose has already been built several times over so search the web and you can find out how their builds went or what they did to make the build easier. I been here for quite a while and learn something almost every day. Remember....have fun....it's supposed to be a relaxing hobby (unless you buy a Hobbycraft kit and then its a bloody death march. From one who has built a few with a few left in the stash). You have a lot of people in your corner so enjoy. Sorry for the run on and I could type more but its almost 5 AM (been awake since 3), there's a blizzard outside and that means I don't get a break until 6:00 tonight
Justin, if it helps with motivation, I've been trying to learn some of the techniques these guys use and it just takes awhile. I've been working on my first (in a long long time) model for a month and am still not finished. It's a learning curve. Just read, read, read, and go slow and stick with it bud! 
When I was a kid I'd knock out a model in a day or two, but I--like you seem to want--am trying to graduate to the next level. (And I was reading for two months before that even)
@fubsr57; Agree on the Hobbycraft comment. LOL! Or any of the older British models. Man they make you assemble things that should just be one mold.
When I was a kid I'd knock out a model in a day or two, but I--like you seem to want--am trying to graduate to the next level. (And I was reading for two months before that even)@fubsr57; Agree on the Hobbycraft comment. LOL! Or any of the older British models. Man they make you assemble things that should just be one mold.
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mikewint
Captain
From your pics it appears that your paint is quite thick. Enamels cure/dry as the solvents evaporate from the paint coat. That process can only occur at the surface which cures/drys relatively quickly forming a "skin" over the uncured/wet paint below it. This "skin" restricts the outward evaporation of the solvents below it. Thus the effect is that enamels dry/cure slower and slower with time, as the "skin" grows thicker and thicker. The thicker the initial layer of paint the longer this process will take. This is why I posted earlier that you need to paint multiple THIN layers allowing 24hr or so drying time (highly variable depending on environmental conditions, temp, humidity, air flow. etc.) slowly building up the color finish you desire. Not that I'm any type of master at this but this is a close-up of my B-29. The finish is ACRYLIC FLAT ALUMINIUM and it has been airbrushed. Thin layers allow surface detail to show through
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Crimea_River
Marshal
Yep. Looks to me as though the paint on the car model has been applied too thick. It's tempting to keep spraying after an initial light coat has been applied but the key really is to resist temptation and allow the first very thin coat to fully cure before applying the next thin coat.
Not sure what is meant by the paint "didn't take".
Not sure what is meant by the paint "didn't take".
Builder 2010
Staff Sergeant
I'm finding that Tamiya Rattle can paint is the easiest to get nice results. They have a natural metal finish in the spray can that I used for the B-17. I did us Tamiya gray primer and then the metallic. These are lacquer-based paints and dry quickly... much faster than enamels. Their nozzles are forgiving and they don't seem to clog. I try to avoid enamels for a lot of reasons, especially their drying times. The paint lays down nicely, levels out and dries quickly. Dump the Testers and get some Tamiya. This started as that Monogram 1:48 kit.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Not a very good photo I'm afraid Justine, but this is the same kit, which I built around 25 years ago (modifying the waist windows to the 'staggered' configuration), and brush painted using Humbrol enamels.
The photo was taken around ten years after building the model, so it's got some 'natural weathering' over those years !!
The photo was taken around ten years after building the model, so it's got some 'natural weathering' over those years !!
parsifal
Colonel
Hi and welcome
I would just say that the guys giving you advice here are very very experienced, and very patient. Don't be afraid to ask...
I'm a novice myself and completely understand the frustration you are feeling I think. Keep on trying, and practice.
Ive always had trouble with paint in a can, but it can work. The pics of the car you posted show a fair bit of 'Orange peel" effect which I believe is due to the paint being applied too thickly in one hit. Sometimes you need to apply the paint as several layers, building it up gradually.
Brush painting incidentally is fine, especially on smaller models and smaller scales. Air brushing I admit will give a better result, but it does take some skill to get the most out of it. Man trick is to keep the airbrush far enough away from the model to avoid unwanted textures. that can vary with the pressure adjusted. once you get the hang of it, some really marvellous effects are possible.
I use acrylics which have some advantages over enamels, and some bad characteristics as well. For the acrylics I generally thin the paint with thinners by at least 1:1 ratios and often 66/33.
You mentioned you are trying to build big aircraft models. I would put them to one side for the moment and build something fairly simple to start with preferably in 1/48 scale. a good type might be a P-51 or P-47 that will allow you to hone your skills with a bit simpler instructions.
Some starting tips I would recommend.
First up your kit, I recommend a proper modelling knife, sprue cutter, a probe or similar, sandpaper, (including 800, 1500 and 2000 grain at least). You can make a mini sanding block out of a stick of balsa. If you use your fingers, chances are your sanding will not be even. I would recommend you make some sort of mounting jig so that you model sits off the table and stable. buy a cutting mat as well. If you go for brushes, I recommend you get a very fine, medium and "large" (a large modelling brush has a brush width of about 2.5mm, a fine brush is much less than a mm across). I recommend a sable hair brush for the heads (though recently I purchased a nylon brush which is marvellous for holding shape and paint application....smooth as silk). To clean them, if you use acrylics, you need acrylic thinner, a small container with warm soapy water and then a dish of clean cold water. You clean your brushes firstly in the thinner, then the soapy water, then the straight water, drying and shaping the brush with a tissue at the end. Keep your brushes in good order, even after you have mastered the airbrush you will need them.
You also need some less expensive brushes for general grunt work, like using fillers.
You need three types of glue in my opinion. CA glue is useful especially where metal (PE) parts are to be attached. but CA should not be used for clear parts. I use simple PVA for that....wood glue. Lastly there is polystyrene cement, which is your mainstay glue really. One of the advantages of CA is that it can be debonded if necessary, using a commercial debonder like "ZAP". a couple of things though. Always keep the glue off your fingers. You will mess up your model real quick if you get any glue on your fingers and then on the model If you are like me you wont even realize you have glue on your fingers until you see the paw prints allover the model. I have learnt my lesson I think and generally apply the glue VERY sparingly with a toothpick or a pin. oh, and before you start, read the instructions several times, check the model for imperfections and wash the model in warm water before starting.
Hope this helps a bit
oh and one more thing....make sure you are enjoying yourself.
I would just say that the guys giving you advice here are very very experienced, and very patient. Don't be afraid to ask...
I'm a novice myself and completely understand the frustration you are feeling I think. Keep on trying, and practice.
Ive always had trouble with paint in a can, but it can work. The pics of the car you posted show a fair bit of 'Orange peel" effect which I believe is due to the paint being applied too thickly in one hit. Sometimes you need to apply the paint as several layers, building it up gradually.
Brush painting incidentally is fine, especially on smaller models and smaller scales. Air brushing I admit will give a better result, but it does take some skill to get the most out of it. Man trick is to keep the airbrush far enough away from the model to avoid unwanted textures. that can vary with the pressure adjusted. once you get the hang of it, some really marvellous effects are possible.
I use acrylics which have some advantages over enamels, and some bad characteristics as well. For the acrylics I generally thin the paint with thinners by at least 1:1 ratios and often 66/33.
You mentioned you are trying to build big aircraft models. I would put them to one side for the moment and build something fairly simple to start with preferably in 1/48 scale. a good type might be a P-51 or P-47 that will allow you to hone your skills with a bit simpler instructions.
Some starting tips I would recommend.
First up your kit, I recommend a proper modelling knife, sprue cutter, a probe or similar, sandpaper, (including 800, 1500 and 2000 grain at least). You can make a mini sanding block out of a stick of balsa. If you use your fingers, chances are your sanding will not be even. I would recommend you make some sort of mounting jig so that you model sits off the table and stable. buy a cutting mat as well. If you go for brushes, I recommend you get a very fine, medium and "large" (a large modelling brush has a brush width of about 2.5mm, a fine brush is much less than a mm across). I recommend a sable hair brush for the heads (though recently I purchased a nylon brush which is marvellous for holding shape and paint application....smooth as silk). To clean them, if you use acrylics, you need acrylic thinner, a small container with warm soapy water and then a dish of clean cold water. You clean your brushes firstly in the thinner, then the soapy water, then the straight water, drying and shaping the brush with a tissue at the end. Keep your brushes in good order, even after you have mastered the airbrush you will need them.
You also need some less expensive brushes for general grunt work, like using fillers.
You need three types of glue in my opinion. CA glue is useful especially where metal (PE) parts are to be attached. but CA should not be used for clear parts. I use simple PVA for that....wood glue. Lastly there is polystyrene cement, which is your mainstay glue really. One of the advantages of CA is that it can be debonded if necessary, using a commercial debonder like "ZAP". a couple of things though. Always keep the glue off your fingers. You will mess up your model real quick if you get any glue on your fingers and then on the model If you are like me you wont even realize you have glue on your fingers until you see the paw prints allover the model. I have learnt my lesson I think and generally apply the glue VERY sparingly with a toothpick or a pin. oh, and before you start, read the instructions several times, check the model for imperfections and wash the model in warm water before starting.
Hope this helps a bit
oh and one more thing....make sure you are enjoying yourself.
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mikewint
Captain
Lacquers do give a nice finish and are fast "dry". Personally I will not use a lacquer based paint because of the very nasty solvents employed in their manufacture. In addition the formulations change month to month as the various solvents used change in price and availability. The same manufacturer's thinner in January could be quite different in March.
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
Everything is said Justine, ... the days to start enjoying your hobby have started and you will realize that you are inside a large group of friends, experts in military aviation and great modelers, willing to help you in whatever you need ... You just have to go through the different threads in "start to finish buillds" and in "your completed kits", to know a little more about the kit that you like, or those that you are interested to know in order to try it yourself.
In my youth I did everything 1/72 with only brush and with enamel paints, ... now that I restarted in modeling went up to 1/48 and I decided trying with cans (mainly for exterior painting), until I could buy a compressor and venture into the wide world of airbrushing. I confess that I already have 3 cheap airbrushes (less than 25 dlls each), with which I have learned and improved my technique paulativamente ... so far I have not needed more.
And yes, I changed to acrylic paints for being easier to use and the advantages that have commented our pals (someday I will try to do it with enamels)
Welcome to the forum and we will be attentive to your first thread and keep learning all from all, ... is the interesting and important of this heterogeneous community.
The only questions that have no answer are those that do not ask.
Saludos desde México COMPADRE
Luis Carlos
SANCER
In my youth I did everything 1/72 with only brush and with enamel paints, ... now that I restarted in modeling went up to 1/48 and I decided trying with cans (mainly for exterior painting), until I could buy a compressor and venture into the wide world of airbrushing. I confess that I already have 3 cheap airbrushes (less than 25 dlls each), with which I have learned and improved my technique paulativamente ... so far I have not needed more.
And yes, I changed to acrylic paints for being easier to use and the advantages that have commented our pals (someday I will try to do it with enamels)
Welcome to the forum and we will be attentive to your first thread and keep learning all from all, ... is the interesting and important of this heterogeneous community.
The only questions that have no answer are those that do not ask.
Saludos desde México COMPADRE
Luis Carlos
SANCER
JKim
Senior Master Sergeant
Welcome to WW2aircraft! Lots of great advice given so I'm sure you'll get better results when that B-29 model comes!
Heya Justine! Just so you don't feel alone; I just sprayed "for real" for the first time and did the exact same thing as you did! LOL! You gotta' laugh or you'll cry. 600 bucks worth of stuff and I just did a worse job than when I did models for a brush and a bottle (a couple of bucks in my youth). But we stick with it and ride it out. Hang in there bud!
P.S. Maybe I should just send my models to a guy and pay him 600 bucks to paint them. LOL! I keed! I keed! God I'm mad right now! Where's the whiskey? Time to go to the biker bar and pick a fight!
P.S. Maybe I should just send my models to a guy and pay him 600 bucks to paint them. LOL! I keed! I keed!
God I'm mad right now! Where's the whiskey? Time to go to the biker bar and pick a fight!
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Well, turning lemons into lemonade; I found this guys channel. He's the best I've ever seen! He thought: "How did the painting masters of the past ever get by without all this expensive stuff?" He answered his own question with cheap materials. This is amazing! Take a look!
View: https://youtu.be/BitmaECqO30
View: https://youtu.be/BitmaECqO30
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
This guy David Damek and his channel PLASMO on Youtube, has very interesting videos to consult and apply some of his techniques. It is a good contribution SupetFire.
Saludos
Saludos
The guy is an outstanding talent and very nice. His models are the best I've ever seen.
P.S. Here is my SIN! I will fix it. I'm going to back off for a couple of days and let it fully dry, then hit it with a clean brush and thinner--and absorbent cloth--then buff it all out with extremely fine grit sandpaper.
P.S. Here is my SIN! I will fix it.
I'm going to back off for a couple of days and let it fully dry, then hit it with a clean brush and thinner--and absorbent cloth--then buff it all out with extremely fine grit sandpaper.
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Looking very nice.. However if you are going to use the thinner and then sanding I wouldn't use the sandpaper on that after hitting with the thinner.. That will cause the double work with cleaning. Just sand firstly then clean..it might be the thinner or some warm water with dish soap for cleaning.
You are FAR too kind! It's a total cluster-f***! LOL! But I am so angry at myself I'm going to make this right come H*ll or High Water!
I will do as you suggest and sand first. I was not using enough thinner in my paint. I did 1:1 and I think I need to do two parts thinner to one part paint instead. I also had my pressure at 30 and I think I should knock it down to 20 in the future. Thank you Wurger.I also bent the left cannon in my rage! Gotta' fix that as well.
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