Hitler's Assassination

i dont agree with the theory that kill hitler before 39 would avoid the war.

Now maybe if it happened back in '32...

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

I will roll my eyes, when you do not make your posts clear!

Understand??!!

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I understand that you are a moderator and a senior member so I will reserve judgement of your response to my post. Though I was only slightly offended by your manners I apoligize if I have caused offense to you in someway.

kool kitty89 said:

Now maybe if it happened back in '32...

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even in 32, because i think the nazi party was more than hitler. they had himmler, goering, and most important, the genius of propaganda goebbels.

a hitler killed in 32, would be a hitler martir, for the nazis. a re-born aryan god, sitting a side with odin, thor and wotan, following the ethnical/cultural/national "salad" of nazi ideology.

a hitler killed in 32, would means also a more eficient german warmachine. since the nazi leader of ww2 would have the good-sence to dont intervent over military issues, as hitler did many times and did wrong, for the lucky of england and ussr specially.

i think the answer to avoid the ww2 was the allies should adopt more strong positions against germany when they started to build their weapons, instead what really happened, that nazis used the weakness of western political positions as them strong.

wasnt churchill that said the peacemakers are usually the ones who throw meat to the lion, expecting they would be the last to be eaten ? england and france should be strong at the time when german warmachine was just in papers.

of course churchill did a little bit the same(throw meat to the lion) with soviet union, closing the eyes for the invasions, of poland, baltic states and finland, but at that time was a matter of surviving isnt ?

and also stalin did the same with germans, triyng to be the last to be eaten by the german lion. when ribbentropp-molotov treaty was signed, the future of poland was defined, by hitler and stalin. even if england and france adopted more bolder actions at that time, after the treaty signed and before the polish invasion, allies would had some chance to decrease the time of war. but in 39, the german warfare and their thatics was already the most modern of the world.

What do you think would have happened if Hitler was killed back in '25 or '26 and Gregor Strasser was there instead.

I have no idea. Perhaps he would have blundered more than Hitler did?

Rabid
I recommended a bit newer book than that of almost 60 years old Young's book and a book which main subject is the July plot, not a person X.

Juha

Just got done watching a good documentary on German TV (It was actually a BBC documentary though) on the different attempts to kill Hitler.

Here are the ones they talked about in the documentary:

Someone fired shots at Hitler at the Hoffbrau Haus in July 1921 in Munich, Germany.

Someone fired shots at the Train Car that Hitler was riding in on March, 15, 1932 in Munich, Germany.

Hitlers car was fired upon in an ambush at a cross roads in Stralsund in June of 1932.

Shots were fired at Hitler in Nuernberg, Germany July, 30, 1932.

A bomb was planted to kill Hitler in Köningsberg, Germany on March 4, 1933.

An SA officer is arrested shortly before he attempted to shoot Hitler in Obersalzberg in June of 1933.

Helmut Hirsch attempted to kill Hitler with a bomb in Nuernberg, Germany in 1936. This one however is not confirmed. Hirsch did admit to doing so, but he was most likely under duress.

Josef Thomas attempted to shoot Hitler and Goering in Berlin, Germany in November 1937.

Maurice Bavaud attempted to shoot Hitler in Berlin, Germany in July 1938.

Georg Elser planted at bomb at Bürgerbräukeller in Munich, Germany on November 8, 1938. The bomb went off at 21:20 but Hitler left at 21:07...8 people were killed after the bomb went off.

Dr Erich Kordt attempted to shoot Hitler on November 11, 1939 in Berlin, Germany.

Oberleutnant d. R. Fritz-Dietlof Graf von der Schulenburg, Dr Eugen Gerstenmaier had attempted to shoot Hitler in July 1940 in Paris, France.

Major Friedrich König attempted to shoot Hitler in Smolensk, Russia in March 1943.

Generalmajor Henning von Tresckow, Leutnant Fabian von Schlabrendorff, Oberst Rudolf-Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff placed a bomb in the Fw 200 plane that was flying Hitler back to Berlin from Smolensk in March 1943. The bomb failed to explode.

Oberst Rudolf-Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff planted a bomb that failed to explode in Berlin, Germany on 13 March 1943.

Hauptmann Axel Freiherr von dem Busche-Streithorst planted a bomb at the Wolfschanze in December 1943. Hitler did not show up.

Ewald von Kleist planted a bomb at the Wolfschanze in January 1944. Hitler did not show up.

Hauptmann Eberhard von Breitenbuch attempted to shoot Hitler in Obersalzberg on 11 March 1944.

Oberst Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg attempted to plant a bomb at Obersalzberg on July 6, 1944.

Oberst Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg attempted to plant a bomb at Obersalzberg on July 11, 1944.

Oberst Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg planted a bomb at the Wolfschanze on July 20, 1944. Bomb exploded but only wounded Hitler.

Very interesting Chris! Proves two things; a number of people did not like Hitler and they were not adept at planning an assasination.

Juha said:

Rabid
I recommended a bit newer book than that of almost 60 years old Young's book and a book which main subject is the July plot, not a person X.

Juha

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Got another one on my to-be-read shelf, haven't dug down to it yet.

Good list there, Adler! I knew of a few attempts at Hitler, but not that many of em!

renrich said:

Very interesting Chris! Proves two things; a number of people did not like Hitler and they were not adept at planning an assasination.

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Those are just a small amount of the attempts on his life. There are an estimated 20 to 30 more that are not listed in that list. I only listed the ones they talked about in the documentary this morning.

I would not say they were poor at planning but that it was really hard to plan anything. Hitler was a very unpredictable man. He would change his plans at the very last minute and he was a difficult man to get to. A lot of those attempts failed because of bad luck. The bomb would not explode, Hitler would leave 15 minutes before the bomb went off, the shooter would get wrestled to the ground and the bullets would not hit there mark...

The Allies didn't trust the plotters, they could not offer them anything other than unconditional surrender that was already required. It is quite possible though that the Germans Kluge Rommel would have conducted an orderly withdrawal in the West. Meanwhile, trying to hold off the Russians in the East so as to evacuate from Eastern Germany as many as possible.
The only assistance I could see the Allies giving is a reduction in the 'City' bombing.
Though perhaps once the Allies reach the Rhine they would have to halt to let their supplies to catch up (like the Red Army did at the Vistula while Warsaw revolted).

One would think that a good hand with a scoped rifle and if he was willing to sacrifise his own life could have taken Hitler out.

renrich said:

One would think that a good hand with a scoped rifle and if he was willing to sacrifise his own life could have taken Hitler out.

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We were not there. It is easy for us 70 years later to sit back and judge these brave men who did give there lives (almost all of them were cought and killed) to try and kill this *******.

Of course, no one knew before it was too late where his policies would lead. It says something that as many attempts on his life were made. It is said that if someone in the US wants to take the president's life he can but will lose his. May not be as easy as thought.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

We were not there. It is easy for us 70 years later to sit back and judge these brave men who did give there lives (almost all of them were cought and killed) to try and kill this *******.

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and all of those that attempt to kill hitler in the course of war, was elder oficials isnt ? because the new ones was more closer of nazi party.

the hate against hitler was born in the very decisive days of invasion of russia and afrika korps. the oficers just cant stand and see their soldiers die by hitler´s bloopers over military strategy !

but that bloopers was very important for the defeat of germany, specially in the siege of leningrad(a fake siege in fact) and the battle for stalingrad.

in leningrad for example hitler changed plans 3 or 4 times, the army group north was sacrified by his puny knowloge of war strategy. he also relegates guderian to a minor role in the whole invasion of russia. guderian, the guy who invented the blitzkrieg.

a controversial point: if nazi party would took the power in germany, one way or another, the assassination of hitler would be a wrong action, since hitler was in great part responsible for the failures of german arned forces in ww2

JugBR said:

juha, i think hermann goering would be the new leader.

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Disagree; I think Himmler would've tried to put himself forward as leader of the new Reich. If you read Albert Speer's book, Infiltration, he makes a case for Himmler having plans to take over as soon as Hitler kicked off; this would've just speeded things up a bit.

I agree Himmler would have taken power. I think that if the war had dragged on, Himmler would have tried anyhow.

I believe there were many higher ups in the Third Reich who were horrified at where Hitler had led their country and would have liked to rectify the situation. Obviously some tried and failed. There are good people with good intentions in every country.

Originally Posted by JugBR View Post
"juha, i think hermann goering would be the new leader."


Goering was I believed looked down as a failure by 44. His mis management of the Luftwaffe had lost the BoB, his empty promises to Hitler during the war had lost him favor not only with Hitler, but most of the German Military staff. Goering had neither the following, nor the reputation at this time to replace Hitler. Regardless, the only sensible action for Hitlers replacement was hoping to negotiate for a peace settlement. That was the main reason for trying to kill Hitler, not for one mans power gains, or delusions of granduer, but to try to salvage as much of Germany as they could. Most of the Higher ups in the Government and military at this point new Germany could not win this war. But some part of Germany may be salvaged and preserved.