Shortround6
Lieutenant General
THere is some dispute about the wooden wings, some sources say they were only wood covered. Metal wings are lighter for the same strength and have more volume inside compared to wings with wooden structural memebers. However the same sources say that Hughes chose wood because it wood give a better serface finish than metal. One source claims plywood on wing was covered with ballon cloth and painted with hand rubbed laquer. THe painted (or doped) cloth serface treatment was not uncommon but odes speak to the attempts at drag reduction.
THe Quote from Hughes is supposed to be post war and in 1937 the Army wasn't buying much of anything then that didn't have canteliver monoplane wings (OK, some trainers?) Yes the Army was interested in looking at the Hughes racer but were they interested in the design as a whole or just interested in certain features?
It is claimed the H-1 was the first plane to use flush rivets, the first plane to use butt joints on the sheet metal (vrs lap joints) and the first plane to use wing leading edge air intakes. I don't know if these claims are true but these and other features may have been of interest to the Army even if the design as a whole wasn't.
THe P-35 had a fairly successful career as a race plane itself.
Seversky S-2 air racer
While not in the same league as the H-1 aerodynamicely it should be noted when comparing weights that the P-35 did use the bigger, heavier R-1830 engine, had a bigger, heavier propeller and had a much larger wing in addition to the fat fuselage. I never said the P-35 had a turbo-supercharger. Just pointed out it flew with it's cantelever monoplane wing before the H-1 did. The P-30s had the turbochargers.
As far as raceplanes go try: Wedell Williams No.44 air racer
The Book "Race the Wind" devotes most of a chapter and an appendix to the proposed P-34 Fighter by Wedell with performance comparisons/estimates and weight analysis (a little crude on the weights but it is an estimate after all.) THE Wedell racers were stress for about 5.35 "G"s and were pylon racers. THE Goveremnt was worried about their strength if not beefed up for fighter duties. While Hughes is supposed to have planed to enter the H-1 in the Thompson race he never did. Also considering that the Thopsen could be run using much less fuel than a cross country dash the lower weight results in a lower G loading than the fully loaded plane would have.
Part of the problem is that carrying over the aerodynamics doesn't work so well. In the Wedell case they estimated by the time they loaded down the plane with military gear, raised the cockpit and enlarged the wing to keep the same landing speed as the unecumbered plane the speed advantage dropped to only around 20mph faster than the P-26 using the same engine (500hp 9cyl. wasp) they tried to keep up interest by schemeing a twin wasp Jr (same engine as the Hughes) but the Army figured by the time all the redesign was done the P-35 and P-36 would be Flying (prototypes) and the re-engined Wedell didn't promise anything that the newer all metal planes didn't.
As far as engine size goes I wonder why Hughes didn't stick the R-1830 in the plane to begin with? The R-1830 was the first twin row engine that P&W came out with. The R-1535 was the second so the R-1830 was certainly avialble when he designed his plane. Weights in the 1938 edition of Janes are 1,116 for the Twin Wasp JR. and 1,403-1,433 for the Twin Wasp depnding on Gear ratio. Both engines using single speed/single stage superchargers. Earlier engines may have been lighter?
More later
THe Quote from Hughes is supposed to be post war and in 1937 the Army wasn't buying much of anything then that didn't have canteliver monoplane wings (OK, some trainers?) Yes the Army was interested in looking at the Hughes racer but were they interested in the design as a whole or just interested in certain features?
It is claimed the H-1 was the first plane to use flush rivets, the first plane to use butt joints on the sheet metal (vrs lap joints) and the first plane to use wing leading edge air intakes. I don't know if these claims are true but these and other features may have been of interest to the Army even if the design as a whole wasn't.
THe P-35 had a fairly successful career as a race plane itself.
Seversky S-2 air racer
While not in the same league as the H-1 aerodynamicely it should be noted when comparing weights that the P-35 did use the bigger, heavier R-1830 engine, had a bigger, heavier propeller and had a much larger wing in addition to the fat fuselage. I never said the P-35 had a turbo-supercharger. Just pointed out it flew with it's cantelever monoplane wing before the H-1 did. The P-30s had the turbochargers.
As far as raceplanes go try: Wedell Williams No.44 air racer
The Book "Race the Wind" devotes most of a chapter and an appendix to the proposed P-34 Fighter by Wedell with performance comparisons/estimates and weight analysis (a little crude on the weights but it is an estimate after all.) THE Wedell racers were stress for about 5.35 "G"s and were pylon racers. THE Goveremnt was worried about their strength if not beefed up for fighter duties. While Hughes is supposed to have planed to enter the H-1 in the Thompson race he never did. Also considering that the Thopsen could be run using much less fuel than a cross country dash the lower weight results in a lower G loading than the fully loaded plane would have.
Part of the problem is that carrying over the aerodynamics doesn't work so well. In the Wedell case they estimated by the time they loaded down the plane with military gear, raised the cockpit and enlarged the wing to keep the same landing speed as the unecumbered plane the speed advantage dropped to only around 20mph faster than the P-26 using the same engine (500hp 9cyl. wasp) they tried to keep up interest by schemeing a twin wasp Jr (same engine as the Hughes) but the Army figured by the time all the redesign was done the P-35 and P-36 would be Flying (prototypes) and the re-engined Wedell didn't promise anything that the newer all metal planes didn't.
As far as engine size goes I wonder why Hughes didn't stick the R-1830 in the plane to begin with? The R-1830 was the first twin row engine that P&W came out with. The R-1535 was the second so the R-1830 was certainly avialble when he designed his plane. Weights in the 1938 edition of Janes are 1,116 for the Twin Wasp JR. and 1,403-1,433 for the Twin Wasp depnding on Gear ratio. Both engines using single speed/single stage superchargers. Earlier engines may have been lighter?
More later