Rich,
can you comment on this text?
According to revisionists, the weave was first used during the battle of Midway, giving credit to Commander Thatch for inventing it, and referred to it as the "Thach Weave."
An article in the Smithsonian magazine, Air Space, said that Lt. Commander Thach had developed the weave which he said contributed in a large part, "...To the success of the Battle of Midway...." However, Commander Thatch admits he had heard it was used in China. Incidently this weave was used, during our training at Toungoo, and was part of a combat report when the AVG first encounter the Japanese on December 20, 1941.
Yes, I can.
This writing (above) is a case of someone taking words and meanings out of context. And my immediate response is that someone, who likes to throw around words with negative connotations in history circles, such as "revisionists" is apparently either an AVG apologist, at worst, or, at best, an overly enthusiastic AVG booster, or most likely, someone who does not know what a Thach Weave is and is simply keying on the word "Weave". Regretfully, this goes on and on. Neither the historical timeline, nor an actually examination of what defines the tactics described supports the position that the AVG had anything to do with a Thach Weave type tactic, nor did they independently develop any weave type tactic, nor was Thach at all influenced by the activities of the AVG. Further, if one takes the time to read up on the AVG one finds not a single instance of a description of a Thach Weave type tactic being used in combat.
Thach was aware of tactical developments from the reports he was receiving. Important to note was that Thach worked out the details of his Beam Defense in July 1941. The first 29 of the AVG pilots and ground personnel did not arrive in Toungoo until 1 August 1941. A second contingent of 123 arrived on 18 August. By early September they were conducting training flights in their P-40's. Kind of makes it a little tough for the AVG to come up first with a "Thach Weave" tactic some two months after Thach had already worked out the details and tested same, eh? Further, Thach and VF-3 were already off to the Pacific by the time the AVG entered its first combat. If indeed, Thach ever saw an AAR from this AVG action it was certainly long, long, after the fact. Kind of makes me wonder exactly when Thach "heard it was used in China" and exactly what did he hear. A quick look at his oral history doesn't mention weaving in China, nor does Steve Ewing's recent biography "Thach Weave – The Life of Jimmie Thach".
When you read up on this first action of the AVG you find that it is an intercept of about a dozen or so Ki-48 (Lily) twin-engined bombers. Without going into detail of the action itself, two of the P-40's making the intercept, in accordance with the tactics laid out by Chennault, were instructed to remain overhead as a protection against the appearance of Japanese fighters. These two were described as weaving over the action and were referred to as "weavers." This practice, which in the USN would be called a "high CAP" was, in reality, merely milling about over the action waiting for something to happen. It has absolutely nothing to do with the tactic later called a Thach Weave.
There are even cases of USN fighters weaving, but not in a Thach Weave. At Coral Sea the strike escort F4Fs weaved back an forth over their charges as they made their way towards the Shoho on the 7th and Shokaku on the 8th. This weave was intentional as it permitted the fighters to stay with their slower companions without having to throttle back. Another weave, for certain, but not a Thach Weave.
I think it is important to note, and cannot be repeated enough, that when developing his defensive tactic, Thach did not use the word "weave" at all. He called it a "beam defense".
Thach deliberately avoided the word "weave" because he was aware of a tactic used by the RAF. If you note the timing of the quote, reporting use of a "weave" in their first combat on 20 Dec 41, obviously, then, the AVG was using a "weave" as well, but long after, as noted, Thach devised his defense. In actuality, the AVG "weave" or "weaver" was not particularly a pure "tactic", but rather a formation lookout doctrine and was, in fact, the same as noted for the RAF. Oddly enough, the AVG use of weavers in their formations made them somewhat behind the times, doctrinally. For the sake of simplicity, though, I'll go ahead and refer to the use of weavers as a "tactic" as once there is contact with enemy aircraft it no longer becomes a lookout doctrine, but a defensive tactic.
The "Weave" or "Weaver" was a formation defense developed, again, by the RAF. At its simplist, this involved having the tail-end-charlie of a given formation weave back and forth over the rear of the formation to discourage an overhead or rear attack. In other cases, such as the AVG having a couple of planes milling around over an action, there was more than one weaver, but the intent was the same. What the RAF found was that, and typical of most air forces of the time, the tail-end-charlie tended to be the most junior pilot. So, in retrospect, they were putting the least experienced pilot, or pilots, in a position critical to the defense of the formation. They also found that the Germans, no one ever said they were stupid, had a remarkable tendency to pick off these weavers as there was no one to protect them. The RAF lost a lot of FNGs that way. Eventually, in early 1942, the practice was discontinued for exactly that reason.
Thach was very much aware of this tactic/practice, from briefings and reports from liaison officers and observers, and experimented with it in training with VF-3 on the west coast. At the same time, on the east coast, Lt Cdr Oscar Pedersen's VF-42 also experimented with concept of protective weavers, both in the spring of 1941. Both squadron commanders, and, of course, their pilots, quickly realized that the poor slob chosen to be weaver had a zero over two pi life expectancy in combat. By the end of May 1941, neither squadron ever considered the use of weavers as a viable tactic. I am unaware of any other USN VF squadrons that may have experimented with weavers.
So, adopted from the RAF, this also was the weave "tactic used by the AVG. I would posit that their use of the practice put them somewhat behind the curve in terms of formation protection.
The comparison of the RAF/AVG Weaver to the Thach Weave is simply a seizure upon the word "weave". Remember, Thach did not use the word weave for his tactic. The expression Thach Weave did not come into the lexicon until Lt Cdr Jimmy Flatley named it in his after action report for the Battle of Santa Cruz. He recounted how Thach's Beam Defense tactic had allowed him a successful defense in an almost sure destruction situation during the battle. He wrote: ". . . the four plane division is the only thing that will work and, I am calling it the Thach Weave." This written in late October 1942.
The Thach Wave, on the other hand is, as stated, a tactic. Here you have, commonly, a four plane-two section division cruising along, probably in a finger four type mode (though in USN practice probably each section leader and his wing man are little closer together than the sections to each other). When attacked (note: "when attacked") by superior numbers the sections separate farther, to use a naval term "abeam," to where the distance between the sections is marginally greater that the turning radius at military power. It is the duty of each section to provide, to use an army term, an "overwatch" of the other section. When, say, the starboard side section detects an attack setting up on the port side section, the starboard side section initiates the weave with a turn to port as the enemy commits to his run. The port section see this move, realizes somebody's starting a gunnery run on them and turns toward the starboard section. This accomplishes a couple of things . . . the turning to starboard creates a high deflection shot for the enemy airplane(s) that if they not particularly trained to do (and most air forces in those days tended to prefer the straight up the rear or head on zero deflection shot) you have spoiled their shot ... the next thing that usually happens is that the enemy is watching the port section and if he attempts to reacquire a sight picture (and he probably will) he's going to turn to starboard as well, still watching his intended victim. Now the enemy pilot has set himself up for a head on encounter with the approaching starboard section. All he can do is hope for the best, because if he tries to break away he's only opening himself up for a free low deflection shot from the starboard section ... game, set, match. An illustration of this can be found at
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/navalwar/defense.htm
Bottom line is that weaving about over ones charges on escort or boring holes on the sky keeping a lookout for your squadron mates as the execute an attack is not a Thach Weave. The Thach Weave requires a particular positioning of the division or section and the "weave" is not initiated until the attacking enemy has committed to his run-in.
Regards,
Rich