davebender
1st Lieutenant
I wasn't aware 1960 Sweden was threatened with invasion.
How would you build your Air Force in 1960?
- Thread starter Lucky13
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Surely you're kidding. 1960 was at the height of the cold war, and the USSR was less than 200 miles away across the Baltic sea from Sweden. Europe was holding it's breath.
Meanwhile back in America, me and other 7th graders were learning "duck and cover" and crawling under our desks during civil defense drills.
davebender
1st Lieutenant
The USA faced serious danger for the first time since 1815 but in Europe there was nothing especially dangerous about 1960. Europe was more peaceful during 1960 then it had been most of the proceeding 2,000 years.
Better not try to sell that to the relatives of the Germans killed in the 53 East German troubles, the Polish riots in 56, or the Hungarian revolt of 56. Constant confrontations over Berlin.
Then the collaspe of the Paris Summit of 1960 over the U-2 incident ( the pilot was from my home town)
Then the Cuban missile crises of 62, if that came to a war, everybody knew where most of it would be fought.
The Europe of 1960's especially the early 60's was probably more on edge that the Europe of summer 1939.
Last edited:
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
But in 1960, how many European cities burned?
How many European roads were choked with refugees while columns of troops (foreign or domestic) marched past?
How many European fields and countrysides were littered with broken corpses of soldiers and the litter of battle?
The time period between the close of WWII until now is most likely the longest span of relative peace the European continent has seen since the Neanderthal and modern man jostled for control of the land...
How many European roads were choked with refugees while columns of troops (foreign or domestic) marched past?
How many European fields and countrysides were littered with broken corpses of soldiers and the litter of battle?
The time period between the close of WWII until now is most likely the longest span of relative peace the European continent has seen since the Neanderthal and modern man jostled for control of the land...
parsifal
Colonel
If i were in that position, the primary mission has to be air support. However multi role is possible. f4s are god, but expensive, and had not really matured as adesign in 1960I would think a mix of F8 crusaders and A-4 Skyhawks would be the best bet. wessex helicopters, Grumman Tracker ASW. C130 transports for rear area transport KC 130 airborne tankers (1958), DHC-4 Caribou tactical transport. Trainers would be Wirraway primary trainers, advanced trainers would be MB326
The Balkans is part of Europe isn't it? You seem to have forgotten about Bosnia, Croatia, etc. What's "relative peace" ?
We seem to be looking at the 60's fifty years later, and with hindsight saying , nothing happened.
During the early 60's most of the adult population of Europe had experienced WW2. They knew if there was a WW3, it would be fought in their front yards, and it would make WW2 look like kindergarden.
It's easy for us, 50 years later, to say they had nothing to worry about.
Last edited:
I was just entering high school in 1960, but I remember the early 60's as being a scary time.
I was pretty tuned in to current events at the time. One older brother in the Army, my older sister's husband was in the USAF, and a family i'd known all my life had a son missing over Russia ( U-2 shoot down). And things just kept getting worse. Berlin crisis, Bay of Pigs, Cuban missile crisis.
I was pretty tuned in to current events at the time. One older brother in the Army, my older sister's husband was in the USAF, and a family i'd known all my life had a son missing over Russia ( U-2 shoot down). And things just kept getting worse. Berlin crisis, Bay of Pigs, Cuban missile crisis.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Looking back through European history sees that there was always the threat of invasion from hostile neighbors...and a hostile neighbor could be anything from a neighboring kingdom to a roaming band of Vikings...
I am fully aware of the Balkan states and the ugly conflict that occurred in the 90's, it was both tragic and inexcusable, but it did not pull the continent into a full scale war (like it could have in years past).
Living under the fear of war is different then actually having a war going on around you. It's like living in a town surrounded by a thick forest. You'll always be aprehensive about a fire...
I am fully aware of the Balkan states and the ugly conflict that occurred in the 90's, it was both tragic and inexcusable, but it did not pull the continent into a full scale war (like it could have in years past).
Living under the fear of war is different then actually having a war going on around you. It's like living in a town surrounded by a thick forest. You'll always be aprehensive about a fire...
parsifal
Colonel
Having an effective military deterreent is one of the ways to avoid wars, so designing your military forces for maximum effecicieny is what peacetime armed forces are all about
- Thread starter
- #31
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Always liked this one for the attack role, SAAB 32 Lansen!
Design and development
The Saab Company was approached in 1948 to develop a turbojet-powered strike aircraft to replace a series of 1940s vintage attack, reconnaissance and night-fighter aircraft in the Flygvapnet: the Saab B 18/S 18, J 21R/A 21R and J 30 (de Havilland Mosquito). The design was initially designated the P1150.
Swedish Air Force requirements for the P1150 were demanding: the aircraft had to be able to attack anywhere along Sweden's 1,245 miles (2000 km) of coastline within one hour of launch from a central location. It had to be capable of being launched in any weather, day or night. Special attention was to be paid to integrating the electronics and weapons systems to create the equivalent of today's weapons systems approach to combat aircraft design. The aircraft was to be armed with four 20 mm cannons, rockets, bombs and/or a new anti-ship missile being developed, the Rb 04.
The design team created a sleek airframe with clean lines powered by a license-built Rolls-Royce Avon Series 100. Uniquely, the design of the swept wings was the result of an early application of computer technology. To test the 35° sweepback design, a half-scale wing was mounted on a Saab Safir, the Saab 202 Safir. The design initially featured both Fowler flaps and a leading edge slot. The slot was discarded as unnecessary after trials with the prototypes and never appeared on a production aircraft. A small batch of P1150 prototypes completed design and evaluation trials with series production of the newly renamed Saab J 32 Lansen (J for "Jakt" [Fighter]) beginning in 1953. There were no trainer versions, but some Lansens had rudimentary controls installed in the rear seat.
Operational History
When the A 32A entered service they replaced the last piston-powered SAAB B 18 bomber. Soon after entering squadron service, the J 32 Lansen broke the sound barrier on 25 October 1953 when a production aircraft exceeded Mach 1 in a shallow dive. The J 32 carried four 30 mm ADEN cannons while the A 32 ("A" stands for attack) had an armament of four 20 mm Bofors m/49 cannon hidden under flaps in the nose and the Rb 04C anti-ship missile, one of the earliest of its type in western service. The Lansen normally was fitted with two missiles but it could also carry an additional missile. Its main role was to prevent any Soviet invasion across Sweden's extensive coastline.
One planned use of the A 32A was to deliver nuclear warheads or chemical weapons. Sweden had an active nuclear weapons program during the 1950s and 1960s, but no weapons were ever produced.
The A 32 Lansen was Sweden's last purpose-built attack aircraft. Throughout the Cold War years, the Lansen distinguished itself with a solid if unspectacular career; Swedish pilots often described it as pleasant to fly. Gradually being replaced by more modern types, the Saab 32 soldiered on into the late 1990s. Two still remain operational with the sole task of taking high altitude air samples for research purposes in collaboration with the Swedish Radiation Safety Authority. One of these was used to collect volcanic ash samples in April and May 2010
A 32A
Ground attack and maritime strike version. 287 aircraft built between 1955 and 1957, retired in 1978. Armed with four 20 mm Bofors nose guns (license-built Hispano-Suiza Mk V guns) and could carry two SAAB 304 missiles or unguided rocket pods.
J 32B
All-weather fighter version initially operated only for bad weather / night fighter duties. Two prototypes and 118 production aircraft built between 1958 and 1960, retired in 1973. Armed with four 30 mm ADEN guns, Rb 24 missiles (license-built AIM-9 Sidewinder) , or 75 mm unguided rocket pods. J 32B was powered by stronger Svenska Flygmotor RM 6A (Rolls-Royce Avon Mk 47A) engine.
S 32C
Specialized maritime and photo reconnaissance version developed from A 32A. 45 aircraft built between 1958 and 1959, retired in 1978. Equipped with PS-432/A radar with extended range and with four cameras - two SKa 17 and two SKa 18.
J 32D
Target tug version. Six J 32B were modified, retired in 1997.
J 32E
ECM (electronic warfare / electronic countermeasures) version used also for ECM training. Fourteen J 32B were modified, retired in 1997. Aircraft was equipped with jamming system G 24 in one of three versions (for L, S or C bands) used for jamming ground and naval radars. Additionally Adrian (for S and C bands) and Petrus (for X band) pods were used for jamming aerial radars.
J 32AD
Project of day fighter version from 1953 as interim solution between the J 29 Tunnan and J 35 Draken, designated J 32AD ("D" stands for Dag [day]). Aircraft was lighter, without radar and armed with four 20 mm and one 30 mm guns in nose and different missiles. None built, 120 Hawker Hunter fighters bought instead.
J 32U
Project of fighter version from 1954 ("U" stands for utveckling [development]) with much better performance than J 32B. Aircraft was equipped with stronger Rolls-Royce RA 19R engine and had improved wing design.
--------------------------------------------------
Me think, a 32 Lansen with a load RB 04, would be as lethal as anything...
Design and development
The Saab Company was approached in 1948 to develop a turbojet-powered strike aircraft to replace a series of 1940s vintage attack, reconnaissance and night-fighter aircraft in the Flygvapnet: the Saab B 18/S 18, J 21R/A 21R and J 30 (de Havilland Mosquito). The design was initially designated the P1150.
Swedish Air Force requirements for the P1150 were demanding: the aircraft had to be able to attack anywhere along Sweden's 1,245 miles (2000 km) of coastline within one hour of launch from a central location. It had to be capable of being launched in any weather, day or night. Special attention was to be paid to integrating the electronics and weapons systems to create the equivalent of today's weapons systems approach to combat aircraft design. The aircraft was to be armed with four 20 mm cannons, rockets, bombs and/or a new anti-ship missile being developed, the Rb 04.
The design team created a sleek airframe with clean lines powered by a license-built Rolls-Royce Avon Series 100. Uniquely, the design of the swept wings was the result of an early application of computer technology. To test the 35° sweepback design, a half-scale wing was mounted on a Saab Safir, the Saab 202 Safir. The design initially featured both Fowler flaps and a leading edge slot. The slot was discarded as unnecessary after trials with the prototypes and never appeared on a production aircraft. A small batch of P1150 prototypes completed design and evaluation trials with series production of the newly renamed Saab J 32 Lansen (J for "Jakt" [Fighter]) beginning in 1953. There were no trainer versions, but some Lansens had rudimentary controls installed in the rear seat.
Operational History
When the A 32A entered service they replaced the last piston-powered SAAB B 18 bomber. Soon after entering squadron service, the J 32 Lansen broke the sound barrier on 25 October 1953 when a production aircraft exceeded Mach 1 in a shallow dive. The J 32 carried four 30 mm ADEN cannons while the A 32 ("A" stands for attack) had an armament of four 20 mm Bofors m/49 cannon hidden under flaps in the nose and the Rb 04C anti-ship missile, one of the earliest of its type in western service. The Lansen normally was fitted with two missiles but it could also carry an additional missile. Its main role was to prevent any Soviet invasion across Sweden's extensive coastline.
One planned use of the A 32A was to deliver nuclear warheads or chemical weapons. Sweden had an active nuclear weapons program during the 1950s and 1960s, but no weapons were ever produced.
The A 32 Lansen was Sweden's last purpose-built attack aircraft. Throughout the Cold War years, the Lansen distinguished itself with a solid if unspectacular career; Swedish pilots often described it as pleasant to fly. Gradually being replaced by more modern types, the Saab 32 soldiered on into the late 1990s. Two still remain operational with the sole task of taking high altitude air samples for research purposes in collaboration with the Swedish Radiation Safety Authority. One of these was used to collect volcanic ash samples in April and May 2010
A 32A
Ground attack and maritime strike version. 287 aircraft built between 1955 and 1957, retired in 1978. Armed with four 20 mm Bofors nose guns (license-built Hispano-Suiza Mk V guns) and could carry two SAAB 304 missiles or unguided rocket pods.
J 32B
All-weather fighter version initially operated only for bad weather / night fighter duties. Two prototypes and 118 production aircraft built between 1958 and 1960, retired in 1973. Armed with four 30 mm ADEN guns, Rb 24 missiles (license-built AIM-9 Sidewinder) , or 75 mm unguided rocket pods. J 32B was powered by stronger Svenska Flygmotor RM 6A (Rolls-Royce Avon Mk 47A) engine.
S 32C
Specialized maritime and photo reconnaissance version developed from A 32A. 45 aircraft built between 1958 and 1959, retired in 1978. Equipped with PS-432/A radar with extended range and with four cameras - two SKa 17 and two SKa 18.
J 32D
Target tug version. Six J 32B were modified, retired in 1997.
J 32E
ECM (electronic warfare / electronic countermeasures) version used also for ECM training. Fourteen J 32B were modified, retired in 1997. Aircraft was equipped with jamming system G 24 in one of three versions (for L, S or C bands) used for jamming ground and naval radars. Additionally Adrian (for S and C bands) and Petrus (for X band) pods were used for jamming aerial radars.
J 32AD
Project of day fighter version from 1953 as interim solution between the J 29 Tunnan and J 35 Draken, designated J 32AD ("D" stands for Dag [day]). Aircraft was lighter, without radar and armed with four 20 mm and one 30 mm guns in nose and different missiles. None built, 120 Hawker Hunter fighters bought instead.
J 32U
Project of fighter version from 1954 ("U" stands for utveckling [development]) with much better performance than J 32B. Aircraft was equipped with stronger Rolls-Royce RA 19R engine and had improved wing design.
--------------------------------------------------
Me think, a 32 Lansen with a load RB 04, would be as lethal as anything...
Last edited:
