ID OF WOODEN PROPELLERS

[Deon]

Hello, can someone please help me to ID these 2 wood propellers, and possible what there value might be.
Thank you.

 

[SaparotRob]

I have no clue but they're beautiful.

 

[Deon]

I have no clue but they're beautiful.

Thank you....

 

[ThomasP]

The upper photos are of a Rotol blade.

 

[Snautzer01]

The upper photos are of a Rotol blade.

Because?

 

[SaparotRob]

Because?

Because why?

 

[ThomasP]

The markings on the adaptor are arranged in a manner used on Rotol props, and/or props made for Rotol (I think this one was made by Hordern-Richmond).

Also, the blade planform is distinctive to Rotol props used on some of the RAF/FAA late-war 3-blade and most(?) of the 4- and 5-blade props at the end of WWII and post-war.

Example of a Seafire Mk III with the same blade planform:

Sorry, but I do not have time to look at my specific prop marking lists right now. They are in my storage locker.

 

[Deon]

The markings on the adaptor are arranged in a manner used on Rotol props, and/or props made for Rotol (I think this one was made by Hordern-Richmond).

Also, the blade planform is distinctive to Rotol props used on some of the RAF/FAA late-war 3-blade and most(?) of the 4- and 5-blade props at the end of WWII and post-war.

Example of a Seafire Mk III with the same blade planform:
View attachment 727999

Sorry, but I do not have time to look at my specific prop marking lists right now. They are in my storage locker.

Thank you very much for your insight on them I do appreciate..

Regards

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

From someone with an interest in WWII propellers, quote

"I had a look at my info, although I cant guarantee that I did a 100% check as until I fully migrate to my new p.c. I will continue to have search issues.

The single blade is clearly Rotol. Many markings/inspection stamps but nothing that is conclusive. It is not a silly question to ask whether or not there are any markings stamped/etched on the base.

Left hand rotation effectively means used on Bristol engine Hercules/Centaurus , Griffon or Sabre.

Blade height may help with identification.

The poster who suggested Horden Richmond may be correct in that the H stamp and number following may designate a Hydulignum blade. If so, I think that is more likely to be the blade drawing number although officially, these blades were coded HR. As far as I know, Rotol then applied a different blade number prefixed R.A. Alternatively, it could be a Jablo blade as I have seen other stripped blades with a similar look.

X4 may signify a 4 blade prop.

Probably late or early post-war

I have not seen any blade number with a number similar to RA 9918. This may well be the Blade Assembly Diagram number.

For example the Spitfire Mk22/24 had R.A. 10129 blades and other wood blades of the late 1940's were similarly numbered..

The second blade is I afraid outside my area of relative comfort and I have no useful comment to make."
End quote.

 

[Wurger]

As memo serves there should be the DRG number at the bottom of the hub. The RA9918 is the drawing number of the adaptor. I don't remeber the meaning of the PB113 but the Spitfire had there PB81.

Additionally the brass sheating is for all the blade leading edge length so it is not from Spitfire rather. IMHO it could be of the Hurricane.

 

[ThomasP]

Missed this the first time through - the RAL stamp is a makers mark for Rotol Airscrews Limited.

 

[Wurger]

Yes .. undoubtedly that's the Rotol blade.

 

[Deon]

As memo serves there should be the DRG number at the bottom of the hub. The RA9918 is the drawing number of the adaptor. I don't remeber the meaning of the PB113 but the Spitfire had there PB81.

Additionally the brass sheating is for all the blade leading edge length so it is not from Spitfire rather. IMHO it could be of the Hurricane.

From someone with an interest in WWII propellers, quote

"I had a look at my info, although I cant guarantee that I did a 100% check as until I fully migrate to my new p.c. I will continue to have search issues.

The single blade is clearly Rotol. Many markings/inspection stamps but nothing that is conclusive. It is not a silly question to ask whether or not there are any markings stamped/etched on the base.

Left hand rotation effectively means used on Bristol engine Hercules/Centaurus , Griffon or Sabre.

Blade height may help with identification.

The poster who suggested Horden Richmond may be correct in that the H stamp and number following may designate a Hydulignum blade. If so, I think that is more likely to be the blade drawing number although officially, these blades were coded HR. As far as I know, Rotol then applied a different blade number prefixed R.A. Alternatively, it could be a Jablo blade as I have seen other stripped blades with a similar look.

X4 may signify a 4 blade prop.

Probably late or early post-war

I have not seen any blade number with a number similar to RA 9918. This may well be the Blade Assembly Diagram number.

For example the Spitfire Mk22/24 had R.A. 10129 blades and other wood blades of the late 1940's were similarly numbered..

The second blade is I afraid outside my area of relative comfort and I have no useful comment to make."
End quote.

Thank you very much very interesting.... Appreciate the information....

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Hopefully I am putting this into the correct topic. More from someone with an interest in WWII propellers, quote
"I looked again at the stamped codes. 'PRCP' may well be the factory stamp for Horden Richmond at Princess Risborough, in which case it would almost certainly be a Hydulignum blade. I believe this factory ceased production in 1946.

If the owner is lucky there may be a Rotol 'RA' blade number on the underside of the base. Typically, the blade numbers were eclectically etched rather than stamped which makes them less visible and more prone to disappearance on a rusty or otherwise degraded adapter.

An example of an electrically etched number can be seen on the second blade in the third photograph '303397.' This is the blade serial number. The drawing number may be similarly etched elsewhere on the same section of the adapter."
End quote

 

[Deon]

From someone with an interest in WWII propellers, quote

"I had a look at my info, although I cant guarantee that I did a 100% check as until I fully migrate to my new p.c. I will continue to have search issues.

The single blade is clearly Rotol. Many markings/inspection stamps but nothing that is conclusive. It is not a silly question to ask whether or not there are any markings stamped/etched on the base.

Left hand rotation effectively means used on Bristol engine Hercules/Centaurus , Griffon or Sabre.

Blade height may help with identification.

The poster who suggested Horden Richmond may be correct in that the H stamp and number following may designate a Hydulignum blade. If so, I think that is more likely to be the blade drawing number although officially, these blades were coded HR. As far as I know, Rotol then applied a different blade number prefixed R.A. Alternatively, it could be a Jablo blade as I have seen other stripped blades with a similar look.

X4 may signify a 4 blade prop.

Probably late or early post-war

I have not seen any blade number with a number similar to RA 9918. This may well be the Blade Assembly Diagram number.

For example the Spitfire Mk22/24 had R.A. 10129 blades and other wood blades of the late 1940's were similarly numbered..

The second blade is I afraid outside my area of relative comfort and I have no useful comment to make."
End quote.

The measurements in the attached foto's are in cm blade length and width if this could be of assistance... Thank you.

Missed this the first time through - the RAL stamp is a makers mark for Rotol Airscrews Limited.

View attachment 728287

Thank you very much....

 

[ThomasP]

At 4'11" - 5' 0" (59"- 60") long it is almost certainly from a Spitfire or Seafire. Although I cannot say 100% for sure, I do not think that there were any other Allied aircraft that used a Rotol blade that short on a 4- or 5-blade prop. The early- to late-war Spitfire/Seafire had too little clearance to use a larger diameter prop. IIRC it was not until the very late Spitfire/Seafire that the prop blade length went over about 5' 3".

I think the A over 5 in a circle indicates this blade is the 'master' from a 5-blade prop, probably from a Mk XIV, XVIII, or XIX. The 'master' blade was the blade to which all other blades were matched for balancing of the propeller, and was indicated with the letter A. It is probable that the blade in its original finish was painted, and had similar A over 5 (or 5 over A) in a circle painted on the forward surface of the blade a little above the adaptor. If correct, the other blades in the set would have similar marks with the letter B, C, D, E, over 5 in a circle stamped on their adaptors.

I think the PB112 indicates the production batch the adaptor came from.

 

[Michael Hope]

At 4'11" - 5' 0" (59"- 60") long it is almost certainly from a Spitfire or Seafire. Although I cannot say 100% for sure, I do not think that there were any other Allied aircraft that used a Rotol blade that short on a 4- or 5-blade prop. The early- to late-war Spitfire/Seafire had too little clearance to use a larger diameter prop. IIRC it was not until the very late Spitfire/Seafire that the prop blade length went over about 5' 3".

I think the A over 5 in a circle indicates this blade is the 'master' from a 5-blade prop, probably from a Mk XIV, XVIII, or XIX. The 'master' blade was the blade to which all other blades were matched for balancing of the propeller, and was indicated with the letter A. It is probable that the blade in its original finish was painted, and had similar A over 5 (or 5 over A) in a circle painted on the forward surface of the blade a little above the adaptor. If correct, the other blades in the set would have similar marks with the letter B, C, D, E, over 5 in a circle stamped on their adaptors.

I think the PB112 indicates the production batch the adaptor came from.

The blade is probably not from a Spitfire mark XIV, XVII or XIX, as it is appears to be for a Merlin engine due to direction of rotation, not the opposite rotation for the Griffon engine those Spitfires used.

 

[ThomasP]

Apologies, for some reason when I looked at the photos I thought the blade was for left hand rotation (counter-clockwise when viewed from the cockpit).

If it is a right hand rotation (clockwise when viewed from the cockpit) then ignore the part in my last post regarding the Griffon engined Spitfires.

If it is from a Merlin 5-blade prop (I could be wrong about the A over 5 in a circle indicating it is from a 5-blade prop) then it is quite rare. Only a small number of 5-blade props were made for Merlin installations in the Spitfire/Seafire and P-51G. I do not think there was any series production of 5-blade props for the Merlin.

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

More quotes from someone who knows far more on the subject than I do

"This is a Hydulignum blade. I agree that the rotation is in fact right-hand i.e. Merlin

Almost certainly Spitfire. The adapter number RA9918 was used on at least one Spitfire blade type.

As to other markings, (in 1943 at least) it was specified that the following should be electrically etched round the adaptor after assembly:
Blade drawing number
Diameter ft/ins
Horden Richmond serial number (H ?)
Inspector's stamp

Some of the above are visible. Others not. The etched detail is liable to fade/disappear over time under wear. Nevertheless, under very close examination it is possible the blade drawing number/diameter may be discovered as the adapter seems to be in very good condition.

(Is there an etched code to the left of the circled A5 marking in Photo 4 of 13?)

The blade height measurement suggest a 10ft 9ind dia. prop. In which case the single candidate is :

RA.10046/HCS – Spitfire MK's VII/VIII.IX and Seafire III"