identification with Bf 109 rudder marking ???

Discussion in 'Aircraft Picture Requests' started by le_steph40, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    #1 le_steph40, Jul 1, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
    Hello,

    I would like to know the pilot of this Bf 109 (apparently Bf 109F) with 98 victories ???
    [​IMG]
    Anybody to help me please ?

    TIA, regards
    Steph
     
  2. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    #2 stona, Jul 1, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
    Edited.
    Oops not what I thought it was! It does resemble Galland's WNr 6711,but it isn't.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  3. P-40K-5

    P-40K-5 Banned

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    Could be Hptm. Eberhard von Boremski with EJG1 (104 victories)
     
  4. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    #4 Wayne Little, Jul 3, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2011
    It is possibly one of Franz Josef Beerenbrock's machines from IV/JG51 but not 100% sure...t.he victory marking layout is much the same as some others from JG 51
     
  5. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Funny you should say that because I had thought of Molders but by the time he got to this sort of number the markings were arranged without that top row above the top rudder hinge.
    Steve
     
  6. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    Effectively, it looks like Berenbrock aircraft, but I'm not sure about it. Berenbrock aircraft had 7 victories on the first line on the top of the rudder and the victories marking are a little more wide.

    Thanks for your help, I keep on look for..., regards
    Steph
     
  7. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Molders victory markings were in Black on his F's.

    It's a pity we can't see a bit more of the fuselage to identify markings...
     
  8. P-40K-5

    P-40K-5 Banned

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    I don't think its a JG51 bird. I have 3 Kangero Volumes books and every rudder kill markings I've seen are black. theres a few of Molders too with the marks above the hinge line.
     
  9. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Yes indeed
    Steve
     
  10. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    I'm still thinking Beerenbrocks aircraft,,,with the theory that the victory markings were redone after the 98 victory marked rudder, the other pics are for 102 and 103 victories in 9 rows rather than eight but are still in the same form of layout, only shorter and slightly thicker in style. The 102 -103 bars also appear to be rather bright as if freshly applied....maybe?
    Hartman Grasser also had his victory markings laid out in a similar fashion, also in white.
     
  11. P-40K-5

    P-40K-5 Banned

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    very good theory/observations! it could very well be Beerenbrocks a/c. I've been searching for other pics of simular a/c
    like the above, but with no luck.
     
  12. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    Hello,
    Thank you both for your help and comments. Regarding Beerenbrock aircraft, I ask myself...
    [​IMG]
    The aircraft shows 102 victories, Beerenbrock claims victorie 94-102 the same day (1.8.1942), that should signify that a "black man" repainted the rudder and victories marking between 2 missions the same day...???
    What do you think about...?
    Regarding Hartmann, Grasser, I didn't look for yet...
    I'm still looking for...

    Regards
    Steph
     
  13. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    It would be more likely that a repaint occurred in the days after the 102nd victory....the first 5 claimed up to the middle of the day equals the 98 as shown on the rudder above, the others being claimed late in the day....so painted later or differently next day maybe? it is possible to make it 'fit' the timeline but not conclusive. The 103 was not added to the rudder for almost 2 months and then we get another issue 103-104 claimed within minutes of each other yet only 103 are showing at the later date on or after 30th Sept....
    Another issue is why repaint to 102 and still effectively leave no room to add further victories? just maybe the 2 aircraft in question are different ones and different pilots???
     
  14. P-40K-5

    P-40K-5 Banned

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    miscounted? two victories taken away? hard to say. but looks to be Beerenbrock's mount.
     
  15. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    effectively, good theory ... you convinced me :D
     
  16. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    Yea me too, well done Wayne.
     
  17. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    #17 Wayne Little, Jul 7, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2011
    Thanks fellas...another note apparently Beerenbrock went on leave a few days after his 102nd victory, promoted to leutnant also...so at the time going on leave for almost 2 months then maybe it wasn't necessary to make extra room on the rudder...again not a concrete theory but......

    Also for Steph a shot of Hartmann Grassers Bf109F, source : the internet.
     

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  18. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see that !!!

    Thank you very much :D
     
  19. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome! :)
     
  20. jester_587

    jester_587 New Member

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    Were the rudder victory markings only painted on the left side mainly? I have seen them on both but mostly on the left side. Does anybody know what would be the reasons for painting the markings on the left or the right side of the rudder and to what loose standard? If somebody was to reproduce rudders for a business, how would the makings be painted on?
     
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