Is this a cabin air pump from a Supermarine Spitfire or maybe a Huricane? Rotax M3102

[wordyfurdypurdy]

I have a very vague recollection of my dad mentioning this was a cabin pump perhaps for one of these aircraft. Does anyone know if that is true?

Searching for the make and model finds nothing. I think he picked this up for an idea for a supercharger for a motor bike once upon a time…

 

[Crimea_River]

Not sure what would be meant by a "cabin air pump" for either one of these planes. I'm not an expert but I think that cabin air was simply brought in directly from outside without the need to pump. Compressed air for brakes and gun cocking was supplied by a Heywood air compressor mounted on one of the accessory drives on the Merlin.

 

[wordyfurdypurdy]

Not sure what would be meant by a "cabin air pump" for either one of these planes. I'm not an expert but I think that cabin air was simply brought in directly from outside without the need to pump. Compressed air for brakes and gun cocking was supplied by a Heywood air compressor mounted on one of the accessory drives on the Merlin.

I didn't make much sense to me when I was writing that either, although I thought I'd better stick with what I remembered, just in case.

I can't find a sausage for "Rotax M3102"

 

[Crimea_River]

Hopefully others can help. Be patient and check back.

 

[VERSUCH]

Spitfire PR VII ,VIIIs had pressure systems of +2 lb, I am fairly sure some of the later mark Griffon powered PRs had them as well.( It appears in the VII and VIII Pilots notes

para 32-33-34.35 etc.)

I cannot find any proof of a Hurricane being fitted...but others may know .

I cannot help identify your pump.

Regards Mike

 

[Crimea_River]

Good point. I didn't think about the PR versions.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I think I got this - Spitfire Mk II pilot notes:

EDIT - the Spitfire and Hurricane did use a Heywood Air Compressor, but it looked nothing like this example.

 

[wordyfurdypurdy]

The cabin pump references I've since found refer to an air pump 'manufactured by Marshall'

 

[Crimea_River]

I think I got this - Spitfire Mk II pilot notes:

View attachment 658252

EDIT - the Spitfire and Hurricane did use a Heywood Air Compressor, but it looked nothing like this example.

Joe, it was the Heywood compressor that charged the pressurized air system as I mentioned above. Indeed it looks very different than the OP's unit and that's why I was trying to point out that his unit was NOT for this system. Here's the Heywood pump (circled) mounted on our Hurricane's auxiliary drive off the right camshaft:

And a closer view, before all the guts around it were removed:

I think the OP is onto something with the cockpit pressurization system.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Joe, it was the Heywood compressor that charged the pressurized air system as I mentioned above. Indeed it looks very different than the OP's unit and that's why I was trying to point out that his unit was NOT for this system. Here's the Heywood pump (circled) mounted on our Hurricane's auxiliary drive off the right camshaft:

View attachment 658348

And a closer view, before all the guts around it were removed:

View attachment 658349

I think the OP is onto something with the cockpit pressurization system.

Yep - I mentioned that after my original post. I'm wondering if this pump/ compressor is really an aircraft component?

 

[MiTasol]

A cabin air compressor, also called cabin supercharger, is used on pressurized aircraft. That one is rather small which would support it being from a small aircraft but cabin superchargers produce LOTS of heat so usually have a lot of cooling fins. That one also says Reversible which sounds strange to me for a cabin compressor as they only operate one direction.
There is no way you could pressurize a Hurricane and I avoid the Spitfire so do not know which ones were pressurized, if any.

 

[GrauGeist]

Seeing the name "Rotax Ltd." on the tag got me curious.
Before, during and after WWII, it was a German company.

So I did a quick wiki on Rotax (forgive me, guys) and saw this:
"In 1959, the majority of Rotax shares were taken over by the Vienna-based Lohner-Werke, a manufacturer of car and railway wagon bodies.

In 1970, Lohner-Rotax was bought by the Canadian Bombardier Inc. The former Bombardier branch, Bombardier Recreational Products, now an independent company, uses Rotax engines in its ground vehicles, personal water craft, and snowmobiles."

Since the the "Ltd." follows Rotax instead of "GMBH", it should be in the Bombardier ownership timeframe.

 

[MiTasol]

Therefore built after 1970 which makes it some 30 years or more too late for WW2

 

[GrauGeist]

Therefore built after 1970 which makes it some 30 years or more too late for WW2

So it would appear.

Very doubtful the Germans would have been a willing supplier of equipment to the RAF...

 

[wordyfurdypurdy]

Thanks for the replies, i am also a bit confused by the Rotax company timeline in relation to the current Rotax company selling small specialist engines, however i did find this which does fit with the WW2 aviation side, Rotax being a wholly owned subsidiary of Lucas around WW2 time. This is probably relevant as my Dad worked for CAV as an apprentice ( from around 1956) which then became Lucas, Park Royal London. Rotax was then entirely absorbed by Lucas Aerospace in 1971.

Rotax Motor Accessories Co - Graces Guide

www.gracesguide.co.uk

 

[MiTasol]

Interesting - sounds a bit like me 30 years ago chasing a Rotax/Lucas competitor by the name of British Thompson Houston (BTH) who were a subsidiary of a north American company called (from memory) Thompson Houston. Never did find them.

 

[wordyfurdypurdy]

Interesting - sounds a bit like me 30 years ago chasing a Rotax/Lucas competitor by the name of British Thompson Houston (BTH) who were a subsidiary of a north American company called (from memory) Thompson Houston. Never did find them.

 

[wordyfurdypurdy]

This one? British Thomson-Houston - Wikipedia

 

[MiTasol]

That is the company and, back before wiki and the www existed, I found nothing about them being connected to GE so thank you for that connection.

The few ownership documents I found either said "an American company" or "its American parent" or similar.

 

[brianwnz]

Don't really know my components that well (or engines for that matter, lol), but the link below shows a vacuum pump with some similarities to your air pump, in the fins and lower attachment screws......

Vacuum Pump 37J - Aero Vintage Spares

Unused, but dirty through long storage. These look just like miniature superchargers.

www.aerovintagespares.com