Thumpalumpacus
Major
Thread is very revealing.
Israel vs Hamas Conflict 2023
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I do believe Israel has tried. Nothing I can provide any research on. Over the years, I've read about outreach programs and thought it pointless, no matter how well meaning.
I've said many times to friends and family that you can't reason with a rabid dog.
Would it be safe to say Hamas and its allies have been calling for genocide for at least decades? There have always been Jews in what was once Palestine. Some people seem to forget that. Anwar Sadat reached out and he was murdered for it. Israel and fellow Zionists have never called for genocide. Israel does not have genocide as official policy.
When organizations call for our destruction, we take it real seriously. It stopped being mere paranoia a long time ago. Gilda Meir said "We will not let ourselves be killed so as to be thought well of."
To quote an American:
"That's all I can stands and I can't stands no more."
I've said many times to friends and family that you can't reason with a rabid dog.
Would it be safe to say Hamas and its allies have been calling for genocide for at least decades? There have always been Jews in what was once Palestine. Some people seem to forget that. Anwar Sadat reached out and he was murdered for it. Israel and fellow Zionists have never called for genocide. Israel does not have genocide as official policy.
When organizations call for our destruction, we take it real seriously. It stopped being mere paranoia a long time ago. Gilda Meir said "We will not let ourselves be killed so as to be thought well of."
To quote an American:
"That's all I can stands and I can't stands no more."
manta22
Banned
It has happen but not often and on a grand scale.
drgondog
Major
I agree.
Would offer the modifier that two men of conviction were able to craft an agreement - that only lasted temporarily because the agreement basics didn't survive to be embraced by large maorities on either side.
'Peace' is an abstraction. 'My Land, My God' is visceral
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Right. So both sides have been shitty to each other. I didn't realize that morality could be quantified, though.
I'd also argue that the Gaza blockade has not only resulted in the deaths of innocent Palestinians, but also was an act of collective punishment, which I'm pretty sure is itself a war crime. So this idea of simon-pure Israelis and beastly Palestinians is simply not the case.
drgondog
Major
Sigh. I don't have my abacus handy but would speculate that same magnitude of Palestinian/Hamas have been removed from play as Israeli/IDF with zero end in sight.
Without taking Palestinians side in this discussion, I am reminded that lands once roamed by American Indians and Incas were shocked that the land that all their generations hunted and lived on, and called 'home', suddenly wasn't - and behaved badly by US Government and the Spanish Monarch's standards of civilized behavior. Those examples are of "Kill until behavior improves'
Is there a parallel here?
Ethics never entered the conversations.
Every conquering powerful nation state was confronted by the same dilemma - assimilate or displace/kill. I would point to G.Khan as the most 'productive' example of the latter. Israel wavers between both. Palestinians are one dimensional.
So why does one get relocated over the other?
drgondog
Major
BTW - while NOT amusing to contemplate the abstract nature of war crimes. codified as they are, it IS amusing to speculate that if there is an arbitor and his name is God, then he/she presumably with the vision, and the span of attention to parse mankind's foibles against each other in thought and deed - could take 'fair and balanced' action on same -
Then Mankind as a collective might just get down to the'magic 500,000 population' quite rapidly....
Then Mankind as a collective might just get down to the'magic 500,000 population' quite rapidly....
manta22
Banned
Because...
manta22
Banned
A confrontation is inevitable when a civilization meets a stone-age people. Indians in North America were anything but peaceful stewards of the land. Their philosophy was "If you are strong enough, take it".
Thumpalumpacus
Major
And what happens to them when they get where they're sent, and the locals resent the newcomers?
manta22
Banned
It starts all over again if they have the same attitude.
Because what?
What attitude would you have if you were in their place?
drgondog
Major
The classic two reasons for displacing (or elimination) squatters your definition) are:
1. "The Will of God" and/or
2. "Might is Right" plus my all time Classic -
"We need it (living space) more than you do" works nicely with both 1. & 2..
1. "The Will of God" and/or
2. "Might is Right" plus my all time Classic -
"We need it (living space) more than you do" works nicely with both 1. & 2..
Admiral Beez
Major
It's not outreach that's needed, but full Israel citizenship and equal representation in the Israeli constitution for those Arabs in the occupied territories. Arabs within Israel proper already have these rights, but Israel refuses to offer this to the occupied territories because then Arabs would outnumber Jews.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Well, there's been no wars between Israel and Egypt since then. That one helluva lot better than this shitshow, I think we can agree.
manta22
Banned
I would re-think my behavior that resulted in my expulsion and then try to get along with the people who have taken me in. "Death to ---" is not an attitude conducive to genuine peace.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Who's "they" in this answer?
manta22
Banned
Israelis would be fools to offer citizenship to those who want their extermination.
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