Italian Airforce Vs Japan (1 Viewer)

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oh boy, not the series 5 debate again...... let's just say that in such small numbers they'd have done nothing to the Japs so they become all but irrelivant.........
 
Don't be too quick to dismiss the Japanese fighters.

While the Zero and Oscar may of been outclassed by mid-1943 (generally due to the intorduction of the F6F), there are a slew of excellent Japanese combat aircraft that were introduced in 1943 and 1944, if only produced in limited numbers.

Ki-44,
Ki-84,
Ki-100,
Ki-61-II,

J2M,
N1K2-J.

all of these would of been a handful for any opponent.

While generally 15-20mph slower than the '5 series' fighters, the later war Japanese fighters have a few advantages in the flight envelope over their hypothetical Italian opponents:

Better powerloading: the J2M, N1K2 and Ki-84 all have engines in the 1850-1,900 hp class and lower loaded weights than their opponents. This would tend to give them an advantage in turn time and rate of climb. The Ki-100 had a turbosupercharger, giving it an excellent ceiling and better speed at high altitude.

Better wingloading. The Ki-84 and N1K2-J both had larger wings than those of their opponents, combined with special combat flaps (automatic in the N1K2-Js case). This tends to mean smaller turn radii for the Japanese fighters. The J2M and Ki-44, on the other hand, had quite a small wings, and were built as Fw-190 analouges.


I don't think this would be a one sided battle, even for the G.55 et al. In fact, I'd actually tend to favour the Japanese air forces (IJN and IJA) over the Reggia Aeronautica, if only in terms of equipment.
 
I agree with Jabberwocky about the underrated japanese equipment, particularly concerning the ki-61,ki-84,ki-100, N1k2, as these gave the americans a hard time, and I have never read anything that hints at any Italian fighter giving the USAAF a hard time.

This also gives credit to the Japanese fighter pilots, which undoubtedly were characterized by much more dedication and fanaticism than their italian counterparts.
The Italians never became fascinated with the whole concept of war, the propaganda of their fascist government was thus to prove innefective, and the result was a poorly motivated army, that won no major victories, and which's only claim to fame was involving the Germans in a lengthy campaign against Greece , when the supposedly superior italian army couldn't do the job, ultimately delaying operation Barbarossa.

I doubt the Regia Aeronautica wasn't also representative of this incompetence.
 
In 1943 all the Japanese had were Zeros, Ki-61 Tony's, Ki-43 Oscars and Ki-44 Tojos. IMHO these were all outclassed by the Italian Macchi fighters. By late war the Japanese did have better fighter aircraft, but of course Italian aviation industry never got the chance to put up anything against it. Re.2005 and G.55 were very capable just like the Ki-84 and Ki-100.

As for torpedo bombers, the SM.79 Sparviero was clearly better than the 'flying torch' G4M Betty, and it looks better too:D . The Japs had D3A dive-bombers, which had considerably more success than the bulky Italian Breda Ba.65 and Ba.88s, but this was only in the early war-period.

It would really depend on when they would meet each other.
 
Later war Japanese fighters also were the product of an evolutionary process that did not come to a halt in 1943. That's why it's important to compare fighters at the point in time that Italy's programs stopped. Why compare 1945 rice rockets to the stallions of 1943?
 
ZOE-34details.jpg
 
Later war Japanese fighters also were the product of an evolutionary process that did not come to a halt in 1943. That's why it's important to compare fighters at the point in time that Italy's programs stopped. Why compare 1945 rice rockets to the stallions of 1943?

Because those 'rice rockets' began operating in squadron service in:

December 1942: Ki-44-II
April 1943: Ki-61-I
November 1943: Ki-84
December 1943: J2M3
January 1944: Ki-61-II
December 1944: N1K2-J
March 1945: Ki-100

Given a spread of about just a few more months, the everything up to the J2M3 is a valid opponent for the 5 series fighters. Later Japanese birds wouldn't necessarily be strict contemporaries, but neither were the Spitfire V and MC 205 ect, yet they were still fighting each other over Italy in mid to late 1943.
 
Yes, the following all entered service after Italy capitulated:

November 1943: Ki-84
December 1943: J2M3
January 1944: Ki-61-II
December 1944: N1K2-J
March 1945: Ki-100
 
So this thread shouldn't actually be ''Italian airforce vs Japanese airforce'' but ''Did the Japs have aircraft as good as the Fiat G 55 in 1943''? There's more to it than that if you're gonna compare the two airforces.
 
So this thread shouldn't actually be ''Italian airforce vs Japanese airforce'' but ''Did the Japs have aircraft as good as the Fiat G 55 in 1943''? There's more to it than that if you're gonna compare the two airforces.

Yes but I would also distinguish between Japanese land and carrier based aircraft. The Japanese Army and Navy had different philosophies and design criteria. Since the Italians never had the opportunity to fully develop carrier based aircraft, I would compare Italian land based to Japanese land based.

The Italian aircraft had impressive stats but i'll put my money on the fighting spirit and skill of the Japanese even if the performance of their early birds was inferior.... and I'm half Italian!

Sounds like a great game Sim!
 
"Italians never had the opportunity to fully develop carrier based aircraft ..."

Say what? Italy, according to Mussolini, was a giant aircraft carrier. Italy did not have a single aircraft carrier and no development whatsoever of carrier based aircraft. There was no opportunity to develop carrier based aircraft because there weren't any aircraft carriers. (They did, however, field some catapault launched fighters.)

Japanese fighter tactics sucked. Why do you think they pretty consistently got waxed by smaller numbers of F4F Wildcats and P-40's?

As far as aircraft operational in September of 1943, my money goes to the Series 5 fighters, especially the Centauro (G.55) and Saggitario (Re.2005) with their brutal firepower of three 20mm's and two .50's.
 
I love this thread, all the lesser talked about Axis planes getting some air time. Very nice job to all.

Nice to hear chat about Jap and Italian planes and not just UK, USA, Russian and German.

For my $0.02 I will just say it would of been a very interesting fight. Japs vs Italians

Good job everyone.
 
August 2, 1943 was the first engagement for the Macchi Mc-205 Veltro. Six Veltros jumped 20 P-40's and P-38's and downed six with one Veltro lost. I read that there were only 260 Veltros used during the war with the majority being built after Italy's exit and under German control.

On June 5th, a G.55 took out a B-26. I understand that there were only 12 G.55's in front line service when Italy exited. These were aircraft of the 353rg Squadrigli. By August, they had accounted for a P-40, three P-38's and a B-17. There were no losses.

Production of the G.55 continued under German control until August of 1944. Well over 100 saw combat with the ANR.

The above are Italian records and as with the records of kills / losses from any combatant nation, whether it be England, the US or Germany, are likely incorrect.
 
The Italians make beautiful cars and beautiful woman.

But war? Forget about it!
 
"Italians never had the opportunity to fully develop carrier based aircraft ..."

Italy did not have a single aircraft carrier and no development whatsoever of carrier based aircraft. There was no opportunity to develop carrier based aircraft because there weren't any aircraft carriers. (They did, however, field some catapault launched fighters.)

Japanese fighter tactics sucked. Why do you think they pretty consistently got waxed by smaller numbers of F4F Wildcats and P-40's?

The Italians did have an aircraft carrier called the Aquila that was ready for sea trials when they surrendered. She was to carry a maximum of 51 Re 2001 aircraft which remained Air Force aircraft.

However you would be correct in keeping the comparison to the Air Forces as this is of course nothing like the Naval Airforces that Japan developed.

Personally I would back the Italians against the Japanese as the planes had the edge and the crews were well trained. The lack of importance that the Japanese gave to tactics until late in the war relying on the individual fighter would have been a disadvantage.
 
Aquilla - 28,500 tons under full load (a few thousand tons greater displacement than a Yorktown class carrier like the Enterprise)

I really don't think that she could have been operational before the middle of 1944 though.

RNAquila_profile.jpg
 
The newly built but never used oceanliner Roma.
 

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