Italian Airforce Vs Japan

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

"Screwball Buzz Beurling", a hard guy to get along with, said about Italians:

"The Eyeties are comparatively easy to shoot down. Oh, they're brave enough. In fact, I think the Eyeties have more courage than the Germans, but their tactics aren't so good. They are very good gliders, but they try to do clever acrobatics and looping. But they will stick it even if things are going against them, whereas the Jerries will run."



"I was flying a Spitfire." he related, "when I came smack on three Italian bombers flying in fairly tight formation. They didn't see me until I was close in behind them and then all of a sudden they spotted me. The hatches started flying open all over the bombers and Italians started popping out to hit the silk. Some of them were wearing bright-colored pyjamas! Gosh! The whole thing startled me so much I only got two of them! The third guy got away!"

 

[Parmigiano]

His nickname was mistakenly taken from the clinical analisys of his own brain.
The original reading was 'Screwed all'

 

[fer-de-lance]

Well like him or not, Beurling certainly was a great marksman. Probably takes obsessive, compulsive traits like his to become such a consumate expert in deflection shooting.

There are many brash Type "A" fighter pilots but Beurling has the wrecks on the ground, captured pilots and gun camera footage to back up his claims.

Having a Comandante di Gruppo (2° Gruppo; Re-2001), a 6-kill Comandante di Squadriglia (151a Squadriglia, 20° Gruppo, 51° Stormo; MC-202) plus his wingman amongst his 8 victories over Italian fighters, kind of lends credibility to Beurling's assessments of Italian fighter pilots.

Beurling's battle trophies at Malta includes the "Black Cat" insignia of the 51° Stormo, probably from a MC-202 of the Comandante 151a Squadriglia, 20° Gruppo, 51° Stormo ...

...
http://www.constable.ca/beurlingmalta.jpg

http://www.eaf51.org/New_Web/IMMAGINI/Piloti/Nicl_Tar_PCT.JPG

"Screwed all"?

Kind-a did, didn't he?

 

[Parmigiano]

.. There is no contradiction in being both ace and and stupid.
32 kills proves that he is an ace, the rest of biography that he is not the most reliable person.
It happens to find characters like this in every profession, great at heir job but dissociate maniacs for all the other sides of life.

 

[fer-de-lance]

Not only is there no contradiction, often it takes that (anti-social) obsessive drive for some individuals to achieve success in battle.

 

[Cub Driver]

Early in the war (that is to say, September 1937), the Chinese had Italian planes and advisor/trainers. They didn't survive long, and the Curtiss Hawk II and III became the CAF standby both as fighter and as bomber until Russian planes and pilots came in.

Given that in the winter of 1941-1942 the Japanese navy and to a lesser extent army air forces were able to whup American, British, and Dutch air forces, I doubt very much that they would have been fazed by the Italians. They were just damned good--well trained, combat experienced, suicidally brave, and equipped with very manueverable planes that they knew how to handle. Later of course these same attributes all worked against them, but when they were on the offensive they were awesome. (The reason I hedge with the JAAF is that it almost always came out second best against the AVG Flying Tigers.)

(Not only the CAF had a fling with Italian planes, so did the JNAF. As I recall, its first long-range bomber was purchased wholesale from Italy, until the G2M "Nell" was got into service.)

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Now available: Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942

 

[Parmigiano]

Ok, here my 2 cents 'on topic'

Fighters
Until the MC 202 Italians had no planes to counter the Zero in any field except ruggedness. The Zero was slightly faster and much better than the 'serie zero' in ALL other parameters.
The 202 closed the gap outprforming the zero in some parameter, but remaining inferior in others (mainly armament, manoeuvrability and range)

The Serie 5 was better than the zero, but in 1942-43 the jap had the Raiden, in late 1943 the Ki84 and the next generation of 44-45 Jap fighters was better than the Serie 5. Could the Serie 5 have been better than them if developed after 1943? Probably yes, but there is no proof.

Bombers
The Piaggio 108 was better than any jap bomber, but was built in amateur quantity. The SM 79 although belonging to a previous generation, was roughly equal to the Jap twins (Betty etc.). But the good and bad points of the planes was opposite.

Recon
some very neat Italian 2 and 3 engined design, but nothing as advanced as the 4 engine Kawanishi. Also the range was completely different: the japs were designed for Pacific, the Italians for Mediterranean sea.

Radio + Electronics
low quality for both

So, if we limit the discussion to historical data (1940 to 1943 and actual production figures), my choice goes with the Japs: the Serie 5 fighter was not produced in enough numbers to turn the tide and the Zero would have made a huge difference until mid 1941 and hold herself until 1943 against the Serie 2 and the few Serie 5, paving the way for the bombers.

 

[fer-de-lance]

The Chinese flirtation with Italian training at the Lo Yang aviation academy and Italian aircraft ended well before the start of hostilities in 1937. The Chinese Air Force had been largely re-equipped with U.S. aircraft like the Curtiss Hawk III, Curtiss Shrike and Northrop 2E by the time war broke out in July, 1937. At that time, there was only half a squadron left of Fiat CR-32 (5) operational in the 8th Pursuit Squadron, 3rd Pursuit Group. Most of the Italain bomber aircraft had been relegated to transport duties.

The Fiat BR.20 was adopted by the JAAF as the "Type I" heavy bomber). The BR.20 saw action in China with the 12th and the 98th Hiko Sentai in 1939 but did not perform well. The Italian bomber proved vulnerable to attacks by Chinese fighters, 5 were lost over Lanchow during two actions in February, 1939.

Another JAAF BR.20 on an experimental flight ran low on fuel in bad weather, force-landed behind Chinese lines and was captured. The crew including a Col. Watanabe and a long-range flying expert Maj. Fujita, Yuuzou were killed resisting capture by Chinese troops.

Soon after this inauspicious start to its combat career, the BR.20 was replaced by the Type 97 Heavy Bomber (Mitsubishi Ki-21 "Sally") in the JAAF. The high performance of the G3M in service at the time with the JNAF was one of the reasons the JAAF adopted the BR.20.