Italy v. England - Air to air
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The 5 Series were slightly better than the Mk V Spitfire.Sal Monella said:
However, the Spitfire Mk IX (408mph) which first saw service in the Med during December 42 was better than the any of the 5 Series.
ps
In Jan 44 the XVI Spitfire ( 448mph) entered service
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
kataphraktoi
Recruit
redcoat said:
Not really. G.55&Re2005 were much powerful (MG151/20*3 BREDA*2),and not too slow(385391MPH). C.205 got 399MPH. Germans thought G.55 batter than Bf109, 1943. Besides,BF109F or BF109G better than spit MK V. So I think 5 Series were much better than SPIT MK V, Spitfire MK IX was slightly better than 5 Series. Maybe the same.
Bullockracing
Airman 1st Class
It amazes me that there is this much conjecture over which planes could whip which other air force. I think it has been adequately proven that there is enough room for pilot skill that given the front-line fighter from any WWII air force, the successful pilots would still be successful. That being said, the RAF vs. the Italians (all things being equal) would be a fair match. In reality, the top of the line Italian planes were a little slower, a little less nimble, and available in far fewer numbers, even given the home field advantage.
Don't get me wrong, I love the top three (MC205, RE2005, G.55) but there just wasn't enough of them to stem the Allied tide. The Allies could have swept the Italian AF out of the sky with P-40s if they had to. There just weren't enough skilled Italian pilots... (quantitatively speaking).
Don't get me wrong, I love the top three (MC205, RE2005, G.55) but there just wasn't enough of them to stem the Allied tide. The Allies could have swept the Italian AF out of the sky with P-40s if they had to. There just weren't enough skilled Italian pilots... (quantitatively speaking).
Bullockracing said:
Oh I think you will find that you're very wrong !
With a top speed of 678 km/h (421mph) at just 1,475 HP and a maneuverability described as better than that of the Spitfire, the Re.2005 was certainly not inferior to any RAF fighter. And the firepower of the Re.2005 was better as-well having three 20mm MG151 cannons and two 12.7mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns.
Bullockracing
Airman 1st Class
Soren said:
The Re.2005 was only available starting in 1942, and by then the Griffon-engined Spits were available, capable of over 450 mph, speaking in limited-production numbers. The 11mph advantage over the Merlin-engined Spits is minimal, and while the armament may have been better, this is merely the whopping 37 Re.2005s that were available. The average Spit had a significant advantage over the average Re.2000 series fighter in a number of areas.
I have to agree. While the Italians were starting to the close the gap for the most part the Italian designed aircraft were behind the top Allied and German fighters of the time.
Having said that though some of the later Italian designs were quite nice and yes in those I think the skill of pilot would come into play.
Having said that though some of the later Italian designs were quite nice and yes in those I think the skill of pilot would come into play.
Griffon engined Spitfires in 1942 ? Bullockracing, you may want to re-evaluate the reliability of your source, cause there were certainly no Griffon engined Spitfire's around in 42.
Also show me a Spitfire that can do 678 km/h at 2k with just 1,475 HP please - Thats aerodynamic efficiency!
And about the maneuverability of Re.2005, well according to General Minguzzi, who flew both Re.2005 and the Spitfire, the Re.2005 was even better than the Spitfire in, as he called it, "tight turns and handling".
Also show me a Spitfire that can do 678 km/h at 2k with just 1,475 HP please - Thats aerodynamic efficiency!
And about the maneuverability of Re.2005, well according to General Minguzzi, who flew both Re.2005 and the Spitfire, the Re.2005 was even better than the Spitfire in, as he called it, "tight turns and handling".
With respect to pure dogfighters, on September 8th (when Italy surrendered), if you look at the very best Italian and English fighters in operation, regardless of the numbers in which they were employed (because, as pointed out, Italy fielded these planes in pitifully small numbers), I think the Series 5 fighters were probably equal to the best Spitfire and better than the best Bf-109's and Fw-190's in service. The Americans had nothing that could touch them either in terms of a thoroughbred pure dogfighter.
I don't believe that the Griffon was in use around '42 either.
I don't believe that the Griffon was in use around '42 either.
The post concerns a specific slice in time - Italy surrendering. As memory serves, and I could be mistaken, the D-9 entered service in 1944. At the time Italy surrendered, September 8, 1943, I don't think the top of the line, operational 109's and 190's were as good as the Series 5's.
The first operational unit of the Regia Aereonautica to be equipped with G.55's was the 353th Squadriglia of the 20th Gruppo of the 51st Stormo. This unit started to receive G.55's in April of 1943.
The first operational unit of the Regia Aereonautica to be equipped with G.55's was the 353th Squadriglia of the 20th Gruppo of the 51st Stormo. This unit started to receive G.55's in April of 1943.
I dont know how you can say it was certianly better than a Fw-190A though when it was atleast equal to a Spitfire.
Fair eneogh.
