Japanese Versus American Victory Claims (5 Viewers)

[andrewgeorge]

If you've read Dunn's narratives you would immediately find his bias and trying to create the sense that Japanese fought evenly with Allied forces, both in combat results and in materials.

I disagree entirely. I just finished his "South Pacific Air War" which you should check out sometime if you're interested in the subject.

He makes it clear the allies had a tremendous material advantage in almost every respect, and that almost every Japanese operation in the South Pacific in 1943-1944 ended in failure.

He also confirms that, yes, there was great deal of overclaiming by aircrews.

 

[Squish]

From the USSBS post-war interrogation and reconstruction, neither those 64 or 44 losses held valid for the Japanese. The true loss number to all causes was around 120 - 130 for Jan 1944, for IJNAF only.

You appear to have a reading disability. The figures that Dunn cites are from the source that you are alluding to but not actually posting.

This is Annex B from
INTERROGATION NAV NO. 50
USSBS NO. 202
AIRCRAFT AVAILABILITY AND LOSS REPORTS



This is the way the Navy has it digitized. Note that when they made the annex into a table that they didn't do a particularly good job. The months are all displaced to the left one. This is why if you look at total column there is only 26 combat losses but if you look at Apr there is 136 / 164. There are similar issues with how the Fiscal Years are lined up in the table as well.

When we look at the column from February 1944 (which is actually January because of how the Navy digitized it) we see that Japanese fighter losses in combat were 80 fighters due to combat and 183 in the other category.

The Navy digitized version of the document can be found here.

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/i/interrogations-japanese-officials-voli.html#no50

It really just appears that you have taken a chart from a different part of the study and then just drawn your own interpretation of it. Or asked ChatGPT to read it for you.

 

[andrewgeorge]

Just want to remind everyone to maintain a friendly tone. If someone is sharing information that you believe is wrong, it's an opportunity to correct the record and educate that user.

The use of AI chat applications to generate posts is annoying, but I'd hope everyone is open to learning something new!

 

[andrewgeorge]

Donald Blakeslee made ace flying Spitfires for the RCAF and RAF Eagle Squadron, then acquired 10 more victories flying for the USAAF in P-47s and P-51s.

Flying for the RAF's Eagle Squadron would be no different than flying for the Chinese American Volunteer Group.

England and China were allies of the U.S. flying legitimate combat missions against an enemy at war.

I guess I'm confused then. Blakeslee's RAF service was RAF service, not USAAF service. Boyington's AVG service was Chinese Air Force service, not USMC service.

I'm trying to understand why it's controversial for the military to treat their service in foreign air forces as such, rather than as part of their US military career?

 

[Irregualr23]

The ban was for posting a screenshot of another users conversation because he was crying that everyone arguing with him was being racist against Indians. It turned out that the guy himself was just projecting and ended up going on a whole tangent how his point of view was actually justified.

Which makes sense, heard complaints about your racism behavior against Turkish and other players, and now Indian players, which now lead to your ban.

Hopefully you would learn a lesson from it be not to be racist or doing personal attacks tones that been off-topic.

Meanwhile I think I've explained enough and no need to spend more of my words with a person getting banned from been racism.

Hope you live long on this forum and try not to get banned.

 

[GrauGeist]

I guess I'm confused then. Blakeslee's RAF service was RAF service, not USAAF service. Boyington's AVG service was Chinese Air Force service, not USMC service.

I'm trying to understand why it's controversial for the military to treat their service in foreign air forces as such, rather than as part of their US military career?

Blakeslee was initially RCAF and then transferred to USAAF.

Regardless, an aerial victory remains with the pilot, not the organisation that they belong to.

Robin Olds shot down 12 enemy aircraft during WWII while with the USAAF. During Vietnam, he shot down 4 enemy aircraft while with the USAF, which was a separate branch of service. He is officially credited with 16 victories.

 

[Squish]

Which makes sense, heard complaints about your racism behavior against Turkish and other players, and now Indian players, which now lead to your ban.

Hopefully you would learn a lesson from it be not to be racist or doing personal attacks tones that been off-topic.

Meanwhile I think I've explained enough and no need to spend more of my words with a person getting banned from been racism.

Hope you live long on this forum and try not to get banned.

Which complaints? Which Turkish player? Is it the one that's currently posting Chat GPT arguments about how unfair the video game is to Axis players? The one that accuses anyone who shoots him down of cheating in the game?

I did not get banned for racism. This is simply another instance of you not having the ability to read plain English.

Note that the OP here is replying to me. He was upset because he cried that a different user was being racist towards him.

So why is he replying to me? It's because I asked him about statements like the following. And showed the screenshot on the forum.




Note that I shared the screenshot of the some of his statements. That was what earned a forum ban. But hey don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!

Keep in mind there are other screenshots from your adopted associate that are worse. But they aren't really related to this topic at all. Your the one that wanted to derail this with some tangent about WarThunder and attempt to attack my character.

 

[Squish]

I disagree entirely. I just finished his "South Pacific Air War" which you should check out sometime if you're interested in the subject.

He makes it clear the allies had a tremendous material advantage in almost every respect, and that almost every Japanese operation in the South Pacific in 1943-1944 ended in failure.

He also confirms that, yes, there was great deal of overclaiming by aircrews.

Dunn's narrative is largely that both sides over-claimed at more or less similar rates in aggregate but that the rate of over-claiming depends on the timeframe, theater, etc. There are multiple points in his book that he points this out.

The use of AI chat applications to generate posts is annoying, but I'd hope everyone is open to learning something new!

Unfortunately the use of AI/LLM is going to be something that we will continue see on the forum, and AI generated post quality will improve with time.

The way that irregular23 is using it is most likely as a translator from English to his native language, to craft some of his arguments, and then translating back. There are a couple of reasons to suspect this.



The whole structure of this argument, the random bolding, and the randomized grammatical mistakes show this.

Note how the author knows the capitalize some places, locations, and titles...but not others. And that sometimes there native sentence structure seeps into their post.

Wake Island is capitalized as a place, but Midway is not. Or we can look at sentence structure here;

"Those search narratives tended to draw conclusion first, and then find evidences. The result would be biased."

We understand what the author means but as a sentence it is close to complete gibberish.

This is also why the characterization also ends up being completely wrong. He told the LLM that the factoid was based on a captured telegram.